DVD Studio - HD to SD hell!

Perrone Ford · November 28th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Steve, sounds like your problems start early in the workflow (you need to sort out progressive vs interlaced) and stay with you through the workflow. I'm not surprised you're having issues given what you've just posted.

The first question anyone is going to need to know is what format you are actually recording in on the cameras... Whatever THAT is, is what should stay through the workflow.

Steve Rotter · November 29th, 2009, 10:47 PM

ok, thanks, that does make sense and that's what i thought but an editor who works in FCP all the time said to capture in 1080i60 and i will be fine. he said it will encode whatever i shoot in, to 1080i60 as it captures. maybe i will try it in 1080 30p.

i will have a look at my project / sequence settings to see if there is something for 1920 30p, which is what i shoot in. the Canon HV 30 tape is shot at that rez i believe. for the XHA1 i believe i'm using 1080 30p. i always shoot progressive so i guess i should set the capture to be progressive as well. he said i would encode it during capture... i guess not?

it looked good during playback as a QT file...i guess it may cause the issue in dvd studio pro. if any of you shoot in 1080-30p, what do you set to capture in? can i select pro res? i heard great things on that. then there is the HDV or DVC pro? maybe HDV1080-30p
thanks so much!!!

Damian Heffernan · November 30th, 2009, 03:13 AM

I could be wrong but I think the other post is on the money: capture at the same settings you shot at.

I would never capture at a different setting i over p as I would think that would start messing with your footage.

I'm only new to the HD to SD DVD but I haven't yet exported a movie and then imported into compressor: I use the export using compressor selection in FCP and then in compressor select best quality 90 minute DVD and then tweak the frame controls as was posted somewhere else here on the forums.

The best results I go by far doing some EX1 output tests was to use the share via DVD setting in FCP which burned a DVD straight out of FCP but you're limited in what you can do with menus etc.

Steve Rotter · December 1st, 2009, 03:05 PM

this does make sense to me. not sure why that guy told me just do 1080i regardless.
i will experiment with some 30p settings. i shoot in 1920-30p. for capture i was looking at either an HDV 1080 30p... or ... apple pro res 1920 30p... do you guys have a preference for capture?

Martin Mayer · December 1st, 2009, 03:14 PM

"do you guys have a preference for capture?"

Capture IN WHATEVER FORMAT YOU SHOT IN, and edit too - THEN put that into Compressor at "(SD)DVD 60 minutes", then put the .m2v and .ac3 output files into DVDSP (which won't need to re-Compress.)

Steve Rotter · December 1st, 2009, 03:25 PM

thanks martin. i know to select the 1920 30p, but would you take HDV or PRO RES?
HDV 1920 30p or APPLE PRO RES 1920 30P.

Pavel Tomanec · December 4th, 2009, 08:15 PM

This is an interesting thread. I wonder what to do in a case when a project involves combination of progressive, interlaced and time-lapse from DSLR footage on the same FCP time-line?

Steve I am also curious if you win your sanity back. Keep us updated!

Regards,
Pavel

Steve Rotter · December 4th, 2009, 09:35 PM

Pavel, yes, that is a very interesting question and one i thought of myself. either final cut would encode the entire timeline via rendering, to one codec you specify or you would have to encode them all first then drop them in. i would think as you capture it would encode it over if you shot with different cameras in different formats. sounds like it could be a nightmare. as for me, thanks for checking on my sanity. i had to stop, as i was working on it daily since the first week of november. it was turning me into a mad man. i had to back away from it, which is something i rarely do. what i have now looks good but it still bothers me because i notice little squares here and there. i took many bits and pieces of this great forum and other things i found online and put them together in my phone for quick reference. i will start filming, keeping it all the same. if i shoot in 1920 30p i will capture in 1080p or 1920p if there is one, apple pro res....i'm going to try using apple pro res 1920 30 for capture, edit and export. that should give me a difference.

Craig Parkes · December 5th, 2009, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavel Tomanec

This is an interesting thread. I wonder what to do in a case when a project involves combination of progressive, interlaced and time-lapse from DSLR footage on the same FCP time-line?

If you are working with interlaced footage and progressive in the same project, you must either deinterlace the progressive footage (using the best tools you have, and live with the loss of temporal resolution and/or vertical resolution) or render out your progressive footage as interlaced (in which case you must live with the loss of vertical resolution.)

Shooting progressive to deliver interlaced is less of a problem than the reverse generally, unless you shoot your progressive footage without baring in mind your panning speeds etc.

Pavel Tomanec · December 5th, 2009, 05:16 AM

Craig: Thanks for your input. Well, I shot all my video on XH A1 as 25f and some only for slow-motion in 50i and some time-lapse. Would that mean I have to de-interlace the entire footage?

Now, I did capture and edit with Easy setup HDV 1080 25p, before exporting the final edit with effects, etc. and changing the sequence to Apple Pro Res and rendered with current setting and got a beautiful and crisp file with my film 41min = 30 GB.

When I went DVDSP route made the film look very pixelated especially around the text and subtitles and wide angle shots perhaps in a similar way as Steve's. I pan very sparingly as I come from the world of photography.

Now I try Compressor as advised in this thread. What would be yours or anyone else's definite answer on proper delivery of DVD, both in PAL in NTSC (for me) formats considering I have this colour rich and pixel free film in Apple Pro Res Codec rendered with Upper field first?

Is Mpeg Stream clip also a consideration for down conversion?

I should mention that I went through most of the Lynda's educational videos on the subject, but found very little information there on downconversion from HDV to DVD.

Thank you and everyone else for their help.

Kind regards,
Pavel

Pavel Tomanec · December 5th, 2009, 09:04 AM

Ok, went the Compressor route, frame control on, resizing Best, Field Dominance Upper, VBR setting 5.5Mbps max. 7.7Mbps as advised on Lynda's DVD.

DVDSP did build the DVD and the results are much better, the titles are acceptable but still some pixelation occurs, the subtitles are much cleaner as well as the overall image. But I am seeing mostly on my 50i interlaced lines, even on the slowed down footage, hmm.

Now I will go ahead with the same setting but changing to Progressive scan in Compressor instead of Upper field (top).

Am I missing something?

Craig Parkes · December 5th, 2009, 05:09 PM

Hi Pavel, you will need to deinterlace the footage on you timeline that is interlaced, and only that footage. Either that, or change your timeline to interlaced (which will probably yield better results in terms of motion, but less satisfactory results in terms of any still frame footage or graphics.)

Pavel Tomanec · December 5th, 2009, 05:28 PM

Thank you. Should I keep the Compressor setting with field dominance Upper first as some people say or as some others say make it Progressive? I would say Upper as the original acquisition was Upper. But then again who knows?

Also I should mention that in Compressor in the Frame Control pane I did set in the Resizing Control section Deinterlace to Better with adaptive details On. Would that suffice?

Pavel Tomanec · December 6th, 2009, 06:17 AM

I think I will skip the Compressor altogether and will go HC Encoder route via Avisynth. I came to understand that Compressor just won't produce that type of quality I am looking for.

Interesting article is also found here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/distribu...-encoders.html

Best,
Pavel

Bryan Sellars · December 6th, 2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavel Tomanec

Thank you. Should I keep the Compressor setting with field dominance Upper first as some people say or as some others say make it Progressive? I would say Upper as the original acquisition was Upper. But then again who knows?

Also I should mention that in Compressor in the Frame Control pane I did set in the Resizing Control section Deinterlace to Better with adaptive details On. Would that suffice?

Hi Pavel, From the results I've had it's better to stay with upper field if that's how it was captured, I'm not familiar with how Mac programs handle AVCHD h264 but with the programs I've been using I stick with the original MTS files for my edit and only re-encode to DVD mpeg2 at the end, and the results are better than anything I've done before from SD DV

Bryan

November 28th, 2009, 04:33 PM	#16
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Steve, sounds like your problems start early in the workflow (you need to sort out progressive vs interlaced) and stay with you through the workflow. I'm not surprised you're having issues given what you've just posted. The first question anyone is going to need to know is what format you are actually recording in on the cameras... Whatever THAT is, is what should stay through the workflow. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

November 29th, 2009, 10:47 PM	#17
Steve Rotter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 94	ok, thanks, that does make sense and that's what i thought but an editor who works in FCP all the time said to capture in 1080i60 and i will be fine. he said it will encode whatever i shoot in, to 1080i60 as it captures. maybe i will try it in 1080 30p. i will have a look at my project / sequence settings to see if there is something for 1920 30p, which is what i shoot in. the Canon HV 30 tape is shot at that rez i believe. for the XHA1 i believe i'm using 1080 30p. i always shoot progressive so i guess i should set the capture to be progressive as well. he said i would encode it during capture... i guess not? it looked good during playback as a QT file...i guess it may cause the issue in dvd studio pro. if any of you shoot in 1080-30p, what do you set to capture in? can i select pro res? i heard great things on that. then there is the HDV or DVC pro? maybe HDV1080-30p thanks so much!!! __________________ www.rotterstudios.com photo-video-pro tools audio

December 1st, 2009, 03:05 PM	#19
Steve Rotter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 94	this does make sense to me. not sure why that guy told me just do 1080i regardless. i will experiment with some 30p settings. i shoot in 1920-30p. for capture i was looking at either an HDV 1080 30p... or ... apple pro res 1920 30p... do you guys have a preference for capture? __________________ www.rotterstudios.com photo-video-pro tools audio

December 1st, 2009, 03:14 PM	#20
Martin Mayer Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 416	"do you guys have a preference for capture?" Capture IN WHATEVER FORMAT YOU SHOT IN, and edit too - THEN put that into Compressor at "(SD)DVD 60 minutes", then put the .m2v and .ac3 output files into DVDSP (which won't need to re-Compress.) __________________ Martin at HeadSpin HD on Blu-ray

December 1st, 2009, 03:25 PM	#21
Steve Rotter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 94	thanks martin. i know to select the 1920 30p, but would you take HDV or PRO RES? HDV 1920 30p or APPLE PRO RES 1920 30P. __________________ www.rotterstudios.com photo-video-pro tools audio

November 30th, 2009, 03:13 AM	#18
Damian Heffernan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: c Australia Posts: 234	I could be wrong but I think the other post is on the money: capture at the same settings you shot at. I would never capture at a different setting i over p as I would think that would start messing with your footage. I'm only new to the HD to SD DVD but I haven't yet exported a movie and then imported into compressor: I use the export using compressor selection in FCP and then in compressor select best quality 90 minute DVD and then tweak the frame controls as was posted somewhere else here on the forums. The best results I go by far doing some EX1 output tests was to use the share via DVD setting in FCP which burned a DVD straight out of FCP but you're limited in what you can do with menus etc.

December 4th, 2009, 08:15 PM	#22
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	Hi folks This is an interesting thread. I wonder what to do in a case when a project involves combination of progressive, interlaced and time-lapse from DSLR footage on the same FCP time-line? Steve I am also curious if you win your sanity back. Keep us updated! Regards, Pavel __________________ The fish is the last to know the water.

December 4th, 2009, 09:35 PM	#23
Steve Rotter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 94	Pavel, yes, that is a very interesting question and one i thought of myself. either final cut would encode the entire timeline via rendering, to one codec you specify or you would have to encode them all first then drop them in. i would think as you capture it would encode it over if you shot with different cameras in different formats. sounds like it could be a nightmare. as for me, thanks for checking on my sanity. i had to stop, as i was working on it daily since the first week of november. it was turning me into a mad man. i had to back away from it, which is something i rarely do. what i have now looks good but it still bothers me because i notice little squares here and there. i took many bits and pieces of this great forum and other things i found online and put them together in my phone for quick reference. i will start filming, keeping it all the same. if i shoot in 1920 30p i will capture in 1080p or 1920p if there is one, apple pro res....i'm going to try using apple pro res 1920 30 for capture, edit and export. that should give me a difference. __________________ www.rotterstudios.com photo-video-pro tools audio

December 5th, 2009, 05:16 AM	#25
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	Craig: Thanks for your input. Well, I shot all my video on XH A1 as 25f and some only for slow-motion in 50i and some time-lapse. Would that mean I have to de-interlace the entire footage? Now, I did capture and edit with Easy setup HDV 1080 25p, before exporting the final edit with effects, etc. and changing the sequence to Apple Pro Res and rendered with current setting and got a beautiful and crisp file with my film 41min = 30 GB. When I went DVDSP route made the film look very pixelated especially around the text and subtitles and wide angle shots perhaps in a similar way as Steve's. I pan very sparingly as I come from the world of photography. Now I try Compressor as advised in this thread. What would be yours or anyone else's definite answer on proper delivery of DVD, both in PAL in NTSC (for me) formats considering I have this colour rich and pixel free film in Apple Pro Res Codec rendered with Upper field first? Is Mpeg Stream clip also a consideration for down conversion? I should mention that I went through most of the Lynda's educational videos on the subject, but found very little information there on downconversion from HDV to DVD. Thank you and everyone else for their help. Kind regards, Pavel __________________ The fish is the last to know the water. Last edited by Pavel Tomanec; December 5th, 2009 at 06:39 AM.

December 5th, 2009, 09:04 AM	#26
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	Update Ok, went the Compressor route, frame control on, resizing Best, Field Dominance Upper, VBR setting 5.5Mbps max. 7.7Mbps as advised on Lynda's DVD. DVDSP did build the DVD and the results are much better, the titles are acceptable but still some pixelation occurs, the subtitles are much cleaner as well as the overall image. But I am seeing mostly on my 50i interlaced lines, even on the slowed down footage, hmm. Now I will go ahead with the same setting but changing to Progressive scan in Compressor instead of Upper field (top). Am I missing something? __________________ The fish is the last to know the water. Last edited by Pavel Tomanec; December 5th, 2009 at 05:28 PM.

December 5th, 2009, 05:09 PM	#27
Craig Parkes Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 444	Hi Pavel, you will need to deinterlace the footage on you timeline that is interlaced, and only that footage. Either that, or change your timeline to interlaced (which will probably yield better results in terms of motion, but less satisfactory results in terms of any still frame footage or graphics.) __________________ www.afterglow.co.nz

December 5th, 2009, 05:28 PM	#28
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	Thank you. Should I keep the Compressor setting with field dominance Upper first as some people say or as some others say make it Progressive? I would say Upper as the original acquisition was Upper. But then again who knows? Also I should mention that in Compressor in the Frame Control pane I did set in the Resizing Control section Deinterlace to Better with adaptive details On. Would that suffice? __________________ The fish is the last to know the water. Last edited by Pavel Tomanec; December 5th, 2009 at 06:52 PM. Reason: additional information

December 6th, 2009, 06:17 AM	#29
Pavel Tomanec Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oxford (UK) and Vrindavana (India) Posts: 118	Hi All I think I will skip the Compressor altogether and will go HC Encoder route via Avisynth. I came to understand that Compressor just won't produce that type of quality I am looking for. Interesting article is also found here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/distribu...-encoders.html Best, Pavel __________________ The fish is the last to know the water.