Starter Thread - Help on Basic Requirements for editing

Betsy Moore · January 13th, 2004, 01:44 PM

Hey guys,

Nice to post again, have a bunch of typically newbie questions while we're on the subject:

1) If you had a little over $2000 for the editing hardware, not including monitor, a seperate budget for software, and you wanted to leave the door open for uncompressed HD editing at some point, what computers would you think about buying first, brand-wise, spec-wise, and where would you start looking for them? This is for a feature I've been helping my friend shoot--and it has several Apocolpyse now style double and triple exposures planned, as well as normal fades, etc.

2) Since the editing doesn't have to be done til the end of summer/early fall, should we wait a while for 64 bit or for the prices to come down one more time?

3) We had really good luck buying the HD-1 from an online discount house (2400, including shipping)--are there equivilant discount computer sites?

And finally...

4) If we were able to squeeze out a $1000 more would we be able to edit with a top of the line laptop and external hard drive?

Thanks so much,

B

Heath McKnight · January 13th, 2004, 02:46 PM

Apple:

1. Buy a lowend G5 for $2000 and get a ton of hard drive space.

2. Use Final Cut Pro; HDV/mpeg2-TS support is bound to be out by the summer, and it only costs $1000. You don't pay for other plug-ins, etc.

3. You could buy an Apple laptop, but it won't be as powerful.

PC:

1. Buy a good PC, but make sure it has a good graphics card, etc., with a ton of hard drive space.

2. Buy Vegas Video + DVD, Premiere and the Aspect HD plug-in, the Ulead solution, or whatever else comes available.

3. PC laptops, in my experience, are finicky when it comes to video editing, esp. with Premiere. Won't be as powerful as a desktop.

That's my opinion,

heath

David Newman · January 13th, 2004, 03:41 PM

On the PC memory speed is the most important. Then drive speed, then CPU speed. So 800Mhz RAM with RAID 0 drives and 2.8+GHz will do the trick. This is a common place configuration these days. The graphic card is not so important, although graphics cards that use shared memory will greatly slow the system down (avoid those.) Any modern ATI, Nvidia or Maxtrox card (P750 or Parhelia) will do. A laptop from 1Beyond or VooDoo PC with 2 striped (RAID-0) drives will perform about as well as a middle/high-end of the range desktop. 64bit CPU won't have an impact for a little while as 99% of the software only supports 32bit modes. Althon64s or Opterons and still good choices.

Les Dit · January 13th, 2004, 05:49 PM

Get a graphics card with 8X AGP speed. I found that that helps the playback be smooth, even from playing Media9 encoded videos.PC graphics cards are about $50. You don't need crazy 3d rendering performance to do video, that's for game people.
PC hardware is dirt cheap these days. Competition makes it so. Modern drives are all fast enough, they get about 25 megabytes a second, even if it's in an external firewire case.
I saw a $99 ( with rebate ) 200 gig drive last week.
The Mac solution seems to need a bunch of extra steps to edit HDV, so let that be a factor also.
-Les

Heath McKnight · January 13th, 2004, 06:34 PM

Yes, but Les remember what I said, Apple will likely have a solution bundled with FCP (or a downloadable update) by the summer.

heath

Craig Jones · January 13th, 2004, 06:50 PM

As with anything new, it's always helpful if you can wait a bit.

I don't use RAID (except for capacity) since DV data rates aren't too demanding. Aspect HD may benefit much more.

I've also had no stability issues editing on PC laptops and the Pentium-M offers quite reasonable performance. The Dell Inspiron 8600 has a 1920x1200 display and internal room for 2 drives.

David Kennett · January 17th, 2004, 02:46 PM

Evan,
Wait - wait - wait! What you have will work fine. I have been using the JVC software, and it will work. There are a number of issues, however. It is flakey! Sometimes you can't save (save often) And remember you can render (called EDIT or CREATE) even though you can't save. Just take the chunk you rendered and include in another editing session.

The ONE big advantage is that you edit in native M2T format, and can send programs back to HD1/10. You can then firewire copy to DVHS (JVC DVHS machines have their problems) Im still using HD10 to show my stuff. SOON there will be many editing solutions, and in native HD1/10 too. I have been using Ulead Media Studio Pro. It is easy to use, quite complete, and inexpensive when purchased with an ADS firewire board. Ulead says they'll have m2t support soon too.

Learn to use the JVC software. Do a small program with three edits and one dissolve - then send it back to camera. I have some hints and kinks on the software - and I promise to post some of them soon. Enjoy!

Betsy Moore · January 17th, 2004, 03:10 PM

Thanks for the advice, guys. I imagine we'll try to wait another month or two for prices to go down/performance to go up once more since we have so much left to shoot to keep us occupied and since our festival deadlines aren't until late summer-October. That means I'll probably bother ya'll for advice once more a little later.

Does anyone recommend any particular stores or web sites where we can get the most for our money?

January 13th, 2004, 02:46 PM	#17
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Apple: 1. Buy a lowend G5 for $2000 and get a ton of hard drive space. 2. Use Final Cut Pro; HDV/mpeg2-TS support is bound to be out by the summer, and it only costs $1000. You don't pay for other plug-ins, etc. 3. You could buy an Apple laptop, but it won't be as powerful. PC: 1. Buy a good PC, but make sure it has a good graphics card, etc., with a ton of hard drive space. 2. Buy Vegas Video + DVD, Premiere and the Aspect HD plug-in, the Ulead solution, or whatever else comes available. 3. PC laptops, in my experience, are finicky when it comes to video editing, esp. with Premiere. Won't be as powerful as a desktop. That's my opinion, heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 13th, 2004, 03:41 PM	#18
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	On the PC memory speed is the most important. Then drive speed, then CPU speed. So 800Mhz RAM with RAID 0 drives and 2.8+GHz will do the trick. This is a common place configuration these days. The graphic card is not so important, although graphics cards that use shared memory will greatly slow the system down (avoid those.) Any modern ATI, Nvidia or Maxtrox card (P750 or Parhelia) will do. A laptop from 1Beyond or VooDoo PC with 2 striped (RAID-0) drives will perform about as well as a middle/high-end of the range desktop. 64bit CPU won't have an impact for a little while as 99% of the software only supports 32bit modes. Althon64s or Opterons and still good choices. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 13th, 2004, 06:34 PM	#20
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yes, but Les remember what I said, Apple will likely have a solution bundled with FCP (or a downloadable update) by the summer. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 17th, 2004, 02:46 PM	#22
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	Evan, Wait - wait - wait! What you have will work fine. I have been using the JVC software, and it will work. There are a number of issues, however. It is flakey! Sometimes you can't save (save often) And remember you can render (called EDIT or CREATE) even though you can't save. Just take the chunk you rendered and include in another editing session. The ONE big advantage is that you edit in native M2T format, and can send programs back to HD1/10. You can then firewire copy to DVHS (JVC DVHS machines have their problems) Im still using HD10 to show my stuff. SOON there will be many editing solutions, and in native HD1/10 too. I have been using Ulead Media Studio Pro. It is easy to use, quite complete, and inexpensive when purchased with an ADS firewire board. Ulead says they'll have m2t support soon too. Learn to use the JVC software. Do a small program with three edits and one dissolve - then send it back to camera. I have some hints and kinks on the software - and I promise to post some of them soon. Enjoy! __________________ Dave

January 13th, 2004, 01:44 PM	#16
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	Hey guys, Nice to post again, have a bunch of typically newbie questions while we're on the subject: 1) If you had a little over $2000 for the editing hardware, not including monitor, a seperate budget for software, and you wanted to leave the door open for uncompressed HD editing at some point, what computers would you think about buying first, brand-wise, spec-wise, and where would you start looking for them? This is for a feature I've been helping my friend shoot--and it has several Apocolpyse now style double and triple exposures planned, as well as normal fades, etc. 2) Since the editing doesn't have to be done til the end of summer/early fall, should we wait a while for 64 bit or for the prices to come down one more time? 3) We had really good luck buying the HD-1 from an online discount house (2400, including shipping)--are there equivilant discount computer sites? And finally... 4) If we were able to squeeze out a $1000 more would we be able to edit with a top of the line laptop and external hard drive? Thanks so much, B

January 13th, 2004, 05:49 PM	#19
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Get a graphics card with 8X AGP speed. I found that that helps the playback be smooth, even from playing Media9 encoded videos.PC graphics cards are about $50. You don't need crazy 3d rendering performance to do video, that's for game people. PC hardware is dirt cheap these days. Competition makes it so. Modern drives are all fast enough, they get about 25 megabytes a second, even if it's in an external firewire case. I saw a $99 ( with rebate ) 200 gig drive last week. The Mac solution seems to need a bunch of extra steps to edit HDV, so let that be a factor also. -Les

January 13th, 2004, 06:50 PM	#21
Craig Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 105	As with anything new, it's always helpful if you can wait a bit. I don't use RAID (except for capacity) since DV data rates aren't too demanding. Aspect HD may benefit much more. I've also had no stability issues editing on PC laptops and the Pentium-M offers quite reasonable performance. The Dell Inspiron 8600 has a 1920x1200 display and internal room for 2 drives.

January 17th, 2004, 03:10 PM	#23
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	Thanks for the advice, guys. I imagine we'll try to wait another month or two for prices to go down/performance to go up once more since we have so much left to shoot to keep us occupied and since our festival deadlines aren't until late summer-October. That means I'll probably bother ya'll for advice once more a little later. Does anyone recommend any particular stores or web sites where we can get the most for our money?