HDV hell ride ! 1

[Daniel Fisher]

Hello everyone, I am sooooo lost and really need help ! I have a number of problems but i think i'll start by going right back to the start.
Firstly i am using a new sony Z5p and recording onto a flash card only in "HDV 25p" and using final cut pro 6 and a mac pro.
OK so FCP doesn't read my card when i try to log and capture ?, so i have been using "mpeg streamclip " to convert my clips to quick time. I want to keep it as raw and true to form as possible...... i shoot in HDV 25p = what frame size is this ? 1440 x1080 or 1920x1080 ???

I have converted over a months worth of filming with "mpeg streamclip" to quicktime with the 1920x1080 (HDTV 1080i ) setting and already edited it in FCP but have had no luck exporting for web or dvd ? Is my work flow floored from the start ?

What export setting should i use: 1920 x 1080 (16:9)
1440 x 1080 (unscaled)
1920 x 1080 (HDTV 1080i )
and will this have any major impact on my work flow down the line ? I'd like to go HDV from start to finish and then down convert for web and dvd until we are ready to output in full HD.
I have been relentlessly studying the forums determined to work it out on my own with the info already available ! but after a month of getting up at 5 in the morning, driving an hour + to film surfers, driving back home, Editing,( releasing all that mornings footage is stuffed because I'm inexperienced and got the shutter speed, white balance or exposure wrong haha ) then heading back out to film the skaters , motorbikes, bands , or do interviews , getting back only to spend what little energy i have left trawling the forums for info on what the hell I'm doing ??? oh have i bitten off more then i can chew........

One step at a time then, can someone take me back to the start ???? :> Thanks in advance for any help and listening to my ravings.

Peace
Dan.

[Battle Vaughan]

I assume you are using the mrc-1 card unit, as the camera itself uses mini-dv tapes. There is a link to a discussion about the card reader that may help: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-hvr-...rd-reader.html

Once you solve the card problem, you should be able to use the FCP 1080p25 sequence setup and edit the clips directly. The clips are HDV format (1440x1080, using rectangular pixels); this becomes 16:9 when you export. (I think you are converting progressive to interlaced, which probably is not helping your quality. )

Our practice here, fwiw, is to edit hdv (ours is 1080i) on the timeline, export a quicktime movie at current settings (which makes a full-res 1920x1080 file for archive) then compress that file to whatever final product we need (in our case, web video at 480x272, yours will be whatever format you wish to deliver)

/Battle Vaughan /miamiherald.com video team

PS: I believe the mrc1 saves video clips as avi files, so log and capture probably doesn't work. I expect (somebody correct me if I read it wrong) that you would simply download the avi clips from the mrc1 or the cardreader, including all the special files mentioned in the linked article, and just import them into fcp like any other file....they would then require rendering on the timeline, though. I tried converting hdv files in mpegstreamclip as dv-stream 1920x1080 but got distortion; too bad as dv-stream doesn't require rendering...but you should be able to import and edit your avi clips, if I read it right. (I have no direct experience with this camera so I'm regurgitating what I have read, Sony expert bail me out here!) I'm thinking you're on the right track transcoding the clips -- again log& capture doesn't work here, I believe--trick is to find a way that doesn't degrade your image or, hopefully, require timeline renders. Second part of your question is about export for web and dvd---if you do have a completed edit, what happens when you try to export, and how are you doing it?
Should be possible with QT conversion or Compressor, are they failing to handle your timeline for some reason?

[Daniel Fisher]

Thank you kindly for your reply. Yes I'm using the mrc-1 card unit but still having no luck get it direct into final cut pro, it won't let me import the clips as a file either ?

Ok so I'm happy you have cleared up for me what frame size my raw data is.... 1440x1080 !
one thing i like about using mpeg stream clip is i edit out all the crap i don't need and then export a neat quick time clip with exactly what i need ready for editing and for archiving. I can live with doing it this way so long as I'm not losing quality ? and it looks ok to the untrained eye, but is it really ok ?

I am exporting with compression set at 1080p25 with the frame size at 1920x1080(HDTV1080i) .....am i correct in thinking the "1080i" bit in this case does not mean interlaced ?
And if i am exporting in 1920x1080 that I'm ready to go, and thats one less thing for FCP to do ??
so which of these setting would be better to use ? 1920 x 1080 (16:9
1440 x 1080 (unscaled)
1920 x 1080 (HDTV 1080i )
Please help me understand the difference between these settings and or which one should i use ?

As for exporting my finished project from FCP I'd like to think some of my questions will be answered firstly be truly understanding my workflow settings from the very beginning.
I can export a quicktime movie with current settings, thats fine, but thats as far as i can get, I'm yet to get any results from exporting from "compressor" for web or dvd and i've read sooo many posts on this topic .... I am currently trying to nest my project in a pal time line and export it like that, but thats not happening either. But i guess this is a whole new subject.

Thank you so much for any help, i can see some light at the end of the tunnel if i get i little guidance ! Thanks
Dan.

[Guy Cochran]

Hi Dan,

You'll want to download the Sony FCP plug in Sony | Product Catalog - Cameras - Broadcast & Production

After installation, Launch FCP and choose File > Log and Transfer.

Hope this helps,

[Daniel Fisher]

Thanks Guy, but still no cigar. ? I can't "log and transfer" or "import file" anything from the mrc-1 card unit . I've been trying from day one with no luck.....thats why I'm dealing with mpeg stream clip, any takers ?

Thank you.

[Guy Cochran]

Are you running the latest software update of the Mac OS and FCP?

[Daniel Fisher]

Yes mac os is the latest update but not sure about FCP ? Theres no update link in the menu ? I'm pretty sure i registered it but come to think of it i don't remember getting any conformation email ? You get two passes when you buy FCP for use on two computers does it matter if the computers are in different names ?

[Guy Cochran]

There are receipts in your Library that tell software update what has been installed.
While in FCP, if you choose "About Final Cut Pro" what version does it say?

[Daniel Fisher]

I have final cut pro 6.0.5

[Guy Cochran]

Ok, so you have installed the Sony plug in, restarted, attached the card reader and have the mounted volume on the desktop. You now go into FCP, choose Log and Transfer from the file menu..(not Log and Capture), what happens?

[Daniel Fisher]

hey, yes i have done everything you say , not 100% sure what you mean by " mounted volume ? but yes the card reader shows up on my desktop with all the files there, but when i open the log and transfer window there's no clips there, it doesn't recognize them.
I also tried to import the clips, file> import> files but the clips are grayed out, so i've tried changing the option to "all files" but i get an error code. ?

[Guy Cochran]

Yes, mounted volume meaning that the card shows up. Cool.

Was the card formatted in the camera?

Do you have another card you can format with the camera and record a couple of quick clips to see if there is a difference?

[Daniel Fisher]

Yes , I formated on the camera, i think thats the only way it lets you format anyway.
I just tried it on a new card (it's the same brand and size ) reformatted did another clip but no go. But i will say that i don't know what i did but somewhere among all the tinkering some clips did load up but i don't know where from or how the hell they got there ? and i can't do it again. it's probably something really small I'm missing ? when you go to log and transfer and open that window how do you determine what it sees ? is it meant to just detect the unit thats plugged into the fire wire or do i have to direct it ? now i feel really stupid ! do i use the "add folder " ? because i've tried that but the clip are still grayed out.

[Battle Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Daniel Fisher

I am exporting with compression set at 1080p25 with the frame size at 1920x1080(HDTV1080i) .....am i correct in thinking the "1080i" bit in this case does not mean interlaced ?
And if i am exporting in 1920x1080 that I'm ready to go, and thats one less thing for FCP to do ??
so which of these setting would be better to use ? 1920 x 1080 (16:9
1440 x 1080 (unscaled)
1920 x 1080 (HDTV 1080i )
Please help me understand the difference between these settings and or which one should i use ?
.

I'm not sure I know the answers to these questions, let me answer indirectly from our workflow: you can output your timeline--whatever settings it has -- to a Quicktime movie directly... Export >quicktime movie. Leave it on "use current settings" and check the "make movie self-contained" box. Quicktime will make a full-res .MOV of your timeline and you don't have to worry about the settings. You can then take this .mov file and compress it -- some of us use Sorenson Squeeeze, some send theirs back through Quicktime as "broadband high" quality --- and make it the size you want for a web video. Simple, works a treat, and keeps a full-res .mov for archive or repurposing.

We don't usually make DVD's so I have little experience with this, but I believe DVDPro will take your original .mov and convert it to mpeg-2 and handle all the transcoding for you. So you may be worrying about output format unnecessarily, just use what's on your timeline. Some people, I have read, do the mpeg-2 conversion before sending to a DVD program, you may want to get better advice on this.

I defer to Guy, who is really knowledgable (see his dv creators site sometime) on the specifics of downloading from your card device. My impression was log & transfer was an AVCHD thing and only saw .mt2 files, but I may be wrong. I would think you could import the individual .avi files from your card after you copy the contents of the card to your desktop or somewhere, but I am only assuming, I have no way to test this. Try selecting the files themselves instead of the folder they are in, if you have not....best wishes / B.Vaughan

[Daniel Fisher]

Thanks Battle Vaughan , I have no problem exporting my project as a self contained quicktime, I have had problems getting that quicktime movie compressed in "compressor" with except-able results for web use, i have all the general problems every newbie seems to have , like having my movie squashed into pal and the likes....... I can burn a dvd in "dvd studio pro " but it will only play on my computer and not on a dvd player ? haha .
There are heaps of threads on this stuff i know, but i've had no luck thus far but I'm still working on it, and when i can't take it anymore....... well i guess i'll ask you guys :> but to get back to my original question, I really need to understand my work flow from the very beginning to have the confidence to proceed .
So if i cant get fcp to read my card?? then in the mean time i guess i'll have to settle for mpeg stream clip, but man it would be somewhat comforting to know that I'm converting my clips the right way without loss of quality at the start before i spend weeks/months editing them only to learn....oh maybe i should of used that output setting ? oops
Thanks for trying everyone ! much appreciated :>