Why did this happen? at DVinfo.net

Jason Gatti · December 26th, 2003, 07:37 AM

I made a vidoe for my son's football team. We watched the DVD at my brother in laws house on Christmas eve. On every other tv the picture was perfect. However he has an HDTV and the picture was so bad I can't even describe it. Why did this happen? Does an HDTV not read the signal the right way because it is not and HD signal of format?
Also how can I make it so this does not happen on future films? Would I need an HD camera? LIke the JVC? Or do I need an editing program that will burn it to the disc in the HD format? If there is an editing program that does this who makes it? What is it called? Thanks in advance.

Heath McKnight · December 26th, 2003, 10:07 AM

There is no way you can upconvert DV or SD video without, say, a DVHS or an expensive converter.

DVDs aren't HD, and won't be for a little while, until the FCC and Hollywood studios, et al., approve them.

heath

ps-Feel free, anyone, to add and/or correct what I just wrote.

Christopher C. Murphy · December 26th, 2003, 11:02 AM

I've got an HDTV and the standard NTSC signals that come in suck bad...worst than a $99 television from Wal-mart.

However, the HDTV signals that come in (currently, only 7 channels total) are crystal clear most of the time. The only times an HDTV signal aren't clear is when the original (source) material wasn't HD, so it was upconverted...and it just doesn't have the HD look to it. However, NTSC that has been upconverted looks better than NTSC through a standard set.

Does this make sense? Get used to it because we're going to be in this situation for many years. I was at WMUR-TV in Manchester NH back in 1997 when we were one of the first 12 stations in the country that went HD - the signal was horrible then because there were so many kinks in the system...from aquisistion to master control to the attenna's to the final destination..the average home. The biggest problem then (and now) is that there were only 2-3 HDTV sets in the whole STATE of NH! It was amazing to see millions of dollars spent on 3 people who STILL couldn't get our HD signal because of the trees in front of their house....lol. You have to love the management out there.

Murph

Les Dit · December 26th, 2003, 11:59 PM

You can put HD on a DVD if it's a data DVD and you play it with a relatively fast computer. Windows Media 9 works great for this.
-Les

Les Dit · December 28th, 2003, 06:28 PM

ps:
Vegas can encode media 9 directly.
Or you can use media encoder (free) from Microsoft for converting avi to wmv files.

What are Mac people using to distribute HD content to friends, etc?
What level of cpu does it need for smooth playback?
can you put a feature on a DVD ?
I haven't heard this discussed yet.
Mac users please chime in!
-Les

Maury McEvoy · December 29th, 2003, 04:42 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Les Dit : ps:
Vegas can encode media 9 directly.
Or you can use media encoder (free) from Microsoft for converting avi to wmv files.

What are Mac people using to distribute HD content to friends, etc? -->>>

I write QuickTime .mov files 'as data' to DVD-Rs. It works very well.

Mpeg2decX, MacMpeg2Converter(MM2C), DiVA, QuickTime, and FCP3/4 can all produce rescaled .mov files. All use QT as their underlying software.

Currently, my favorite codecs are Pixlet and DC30+. Both 1280x720p and 1920x1080p work well for distribution.

<<<-- What level of cpu does it need for smooth playback? -->>>

Playback from a DVD-R is limited by DVD rotation speed and bit density. The Pixlet codec is designed to produce smooth playback from highly compressed files. So far, I have only used the higher quality Pixlet settings.

Heath McKnight · December 29th, 2003, 09:45 AM

what about mpeg2decX? do you like it, or is MM2C better?

heath

Maury McEvoy · December 29th, 2003, 12:31 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : what about mpeg2decX? do you like it, or is MM2C better? -->>>

I had good results from mpeg2decX until I got my new G5DP2. On my G5, mpeg2decX would crash after processing about 6 minutes of data. I then switched to MM2C, and have had no more crashes. Except for the mpeg2decX crashes on my G5, both work well.

YMMV.

Christopher C. Murphy · December 30th, 2003, 10:38 AM

I'd keep the original footage you grab (if its small enough to fit) and put it on a DVD as data - include the free VLC player on the data DVD for anyone that doesn't have it. Just include instructions to install the player, so they can watch true HD.

You could use the free VLC player -- http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

However, it's possible that the VLC player can't be included because the company that makes it won't allow it? I'm just suggesting it, so confirm with them that you can do it...probably not a problem if you keep everything intact.

Murph

Heath McKnight · December 30th, 2003, 10:54 AM

Where can I find MM2C? The link at Apple is dead.

heath

Paul St. Denis · December 30th, 2003, 11:55 AM

Yes Heath, the original link to MM2C seems to be down,
Fortunatly tgpo offers MM2C as one of the tools he uses in his VCD pack
http://homepage.mac.com/tgpo/programs.html
Christopher, VLC is open source and freely redistributable under the guidelines of the GNU public license. Since it is runnable from the disk image people may even be able run it from the DVD without installing it. My question is can you use Quicktime's autostart feature on a DVD? It would be nice to have a DVD that launches VLC with the movie playing.
The problem with distributing the original footage is that we don't have a working solution for editing transport streams while keeping them in that format (on the Mac at least).
Frederic Haubrich in another post, (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18954) is using 3vix for distribution, I calculated that you can fit about 70 minutes on a 4.5 DVD that way.
You need to download the codec in order to view the content.
What I don't quite get is that 3vix/Divx are supposed to be MPEG4
compliant, why can't Quicktime play these files without the codec?

December 26th, 2003, 07:37 AM	#1
Jason Gatti Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 48	Why did this happen? I made a vidoe for my son's football team. We watched the DVD at my brother in laws house on Christmas eve. On every other tv the picture was perfect. However he has an HDTV and the picture was so bad I can't even describe it. Why did this happen? Does an HDTV not read the signal the right way because it is not and HD signal of format? Also how can I make it so this does not happen on future films? Would I need an HD camera? LIke the JVC? Or do I need an editing program that will burn it to the disc in the HD format? If there is an editing program that does this who makes it? What is it called? Thanks in advance.

December 26th, 2003, 10:07 AM	#2
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	There is no way you can upconvert DV or SD video without, say, a DVHS or an expensive converter. DVDs aren't HD, and won't be for a little while, until the FCC and Hollywood studios, et al., approve them. heath ps-Feel free, anyone, to add and/or correct what I just wrote. __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 26th, 2003, 11:02 AM	#3
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I've got an HDTV and the standard NTSC signals that come in suck bad...worst than a $99 television from Wal-mart. However, the HDTV signals that come in (currently, only 7 channels total) are crystal clear most of the time. The only times an HDTV signal aren't clear is when the original (source) material wasn't HD, so it was upconverted...and it just doesn't have the HD look to it. However, NTSC that has been upconverted looks better than NTSC through a standard set. Does this make sense? Get used to it because we're going to be in this situation for many years. I was at WMUR-TV in Manchester NH back in 1997 when we were one of the first 12 stations in the country that went HD - the signal was horrible then because there were so many kinks in the system...from aquisistion to master control to the attenna's to the final destination..the average home. The biggest problem then (and now) is that there were only 2-3 HDTV sets in the whole STATE of NH! It was amazing to see millions of dollars spent on 3 people who STILL couldn't get our HD signal because of the trees in front of their house....lol. You have to love the management out there. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

December 29th, 2003, 04:42 AM	#6
Maury McEvoy Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cambria CA Posts: 45	Mac HD content distribution <<<-- Originally posted by Les Dit : ps: Vegas can encode media 9 directly. Or you can use media encoder (free) from Microsoft for converting avi to wmv files. What are Mac people using to distribute HD content to friends, etc? -->>> I write QuickTime .mov files 'as data' to DVD-Rs. It works very well. Mpeg2decX, MacMpeg2Converter(MM2C), DiVA, QuickTime, and FCP3/4 can all produce rescaled .mov files. All use QT as their underlying software. Currently, my favorite codecs are Pixlet and DC30+. Both 1280x720p and 1920x1080p work well for distribution. <<<-- What level of cpu does it need for smooth playback? -->>> Playback from a DVD-R is limited by DVD rotation speed and bit density. The Pixlet codec is designed to produce smooth playback from highly compressed files. So far, I have only used the higher quality Pixlet settings. __________________ Maury

December 29th, 2003, 09:45 AM	#7
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	what about mpeg2decX? do you like it, or is MM2C better? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 26th, 2003, 11:59 PM	#4
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	You can put HD on a DVD if it's a data DVD and you play it with a relatively fast computer. Windows Media 9 works great for this. -Les

December 28th, 2003, 06:28 PM	#5
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	ps: Vegas can encode media 9 directly. Or you can use media encoder (free) from Microsoft for converting avi to wmv files. What are Mac people using to distribute HD content to friends, etc? What level of cpu does it need for smooth playback? can you put a feature on a DVD ? I haven't heard this discussed yet. Mac users please chime in! -Les

December 29th, 2003, 12:31 PM	#8
Maury McEvoy Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cambria CA Posts: 45	mpeg2decX vs MM2C <<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : what about mpeg2decX? do you like it, or is MM2C better? -->>> I had good results from mpeg2decX until I got my new G5DP2. On my G5, mpeg2decX would crash after processing about 6 minutes of data. I then switched to MM2C, and have had no more crashes. Except for the mpeg2decX crashes on my G5, both work well. YMMV. __________________ Maury

December 30th, 2003, 10:38 AM	#9
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I'd keep the original footage you grab (if its small enough to fit) and put it on a DVD as data - include the free VLC player on the data DVD for anyone that doesn't have it. Just include instructions to install the player, so they can watch true HD. You could use the free VLC player -- http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ However, it's possible that the VLC player can't be included because the company that makes it won't allow it? I'm just suggesting it, so confirm with them that you can do it...probably not a problem if you keep everything intact. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

December 30th, 2003, 10:54 AM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Where can I find MM2C? The link at Apple is dead. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 30th, 2003, 11:55 AM	#11
Paul St. Denis Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Stony Brook NY Posts: 169	Yes Heath, the original link to MM2C seems to be down, Fortunatly tgpo offers MM2C as one of the tools he uses in his VCD pack http://homepage.mac.com/tgpo/programs.html Christopher, VLC is open source and freely redistributable under the guidelines of the GNU public license. Since it is runnable from the disk image people may even be able run it from the DVD without installing it. My question is can you use Quicktime's autostart feature on a DVD? It would be nice to have a DVD that launches VLC with the movie playing. The problem with distributing the original footage is that we don't have a working solution for editing transport streams while keeping them in that format (on the Mac at least). Frederic Haubrich in another post, (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18954) is using 3vix for distribution, I calculated that you can fit about 70 minutes on a 4.5 DVD that way. You need to download the codec in order to view the content. What I don't quite get is that 3vix/Divx are supposed to be MPEG4 compliant, why can't Quicktime play these files without the codec?