DC30+ codecs for OS X at DVinfo.net

Eric Bilodeau · November 4th, 2003, 05:22 AM

I'll try to straighten things about my own workflow: offline HD MJPEG is based on the fact that I use the squared5 MJPEG (motion jpeg, a codec very commonly used by pro cards like the targas) codec at 30 to 40% quality to do offlime work (I tested that, but I usually use lossless to edit) Squared5 has designed a "booster engine" for FCP's RT capabilities, I use it, it does help. As for the not blazingly fast thing, it means that playback is not perfectly smooth (witch will not be an issue when my DP 2Ghz arrives).

Steve Mullen · November 4th, 2003, 07:24 AM

Amazing! How did you discover it? I gather it is different than Apple's MJPEG A/B. How so?

Steven Galvano · November 4th, 2003, 07:45 AM

Eric,

Can you lay out your entire workflow for us?

Thanks!

Steven Galvano

Eric Bilodeau · November 4th, 2003, 05:56 PM

I discovered the driver from Squared 5 a bit unintentionaly. I bought, 5 years ago, along with a G3 400, a pinnacle miro DC30+ card, a very good MJPEG based interlaced 720X480 video card. Pinnacle stopped support for the card 3 years ago so I was forced to use it with os 9. I pretty much had forgotten it but I discovered those unnoficial drivers via Apple's site and now my card is totally boosted, works much better than the original... Even more, you can choose to capture the DV stream from firewire to MJPEG for optimal quality even without the DC30. Anyway. As I believed it was great for SD, I thought why not give it a try with HD and it worked very well.

Darren Kelly · November 4th, 2003, 06:02 PM

I'm sorry Eric, I don't get it.

this old card will capture HD into FCP and you can edit with it, etc?

DBK

Eric Bilodeau · November 4th, 2003, 06:11 PM

No no, this old card is SD, but the codecs included can be used in HD definition with very good results (nothing to do with the card, as a matter of fact you do not need the card to use the codecs, just download and install the drivers and use them as any QT codecs). Sorry I got you confused, that was unclear... :)

By the way the multicodec capture via firewire and the RT extreme booster engine for FCP can be used as well without the card.

Steve Mullen · November 4th, 2003, 06:13 PM

I'm still wondering how it differes from Apple's mJPEG codec.

And the Booster sounds interesting too.

Eric Bilodeau · November 4th, 2003, 06:15 PM

My "workflow" is rather simple because I do not own a HD10 though I have very extensively tested the camera and I still use it often so I do not (for the moment) need the "back to tape" option.

I capture via firewire using either DVHSCap or virtualVDHS (both work fine). I demux the m2t file using MPGTXwrap and then convert the remaining files to Quicktime DC30+ lossless using mpeg2decx. I normally use only video from the HD10 since I record sound on a DAT or else depending on the project. After that, I can tweek the image and recompress with the lossless codec. I end up with a very good lossless master from witch I make a MJPEG (DC30+) HD copy witch plays smoothly on my computer full screen.

No big deal really, but it works fine.

Steven Galvano · November 4th, 2003, 07:18 PM

Eric,

Sounds like a good solution.

Would you agree that using Vegas on a PC would be a cleaner and potentially less lossy way of editing HD10 stuff??

It's uncomfortable thinking of getting a Pc to edit (being a lifelong MAC guy), but I've been searching for the best MAC "workaround" for a month now, and my head is starting to spin.

With scores of hours of footage and a deadline, I need to move forward.

thanks!!

Steven Galvano

Josef Crow · November 4th, 2003, 07:20 PM

Eric... or anybody else

1. Correct me if I'm wrong. The PC version of what you're doing would be: Capture via firewire (which program?). Then demux with Elcard's Video Decoder 2.0?

2. After capture and demuxing, what file type do you end up with? They must be huge!! (how big?)

3. What program do you edit with and does it have any problem working in real time?

thanks

Eric Bilodeau · November 4th, 2003, 08:05 PM

Working with Vegas certainly is a better solution (more adapted), but lossless is, by definition lossless, so afer the capture, there is no loss with my alternative, thus Vegas is not a less lossy way of editing HDV. I do not use Vega but I do not know if the program uses a lossless or lossy compression. Steven, there is still the high end solution, mainly Decklink HD or AJA with converters and a small raid array witch works perfectly fine for macintosh.

For PC you can capture with the utility that comes with the camera. I remember suggestions of recompressed schemes (like JPEG and lossless YUV) in older threads.

I edit using FCP4, no real time (on my DP500 G4 but I expect some RT with my DP 2Ghz G5 (not yet arrived)). Maybe Paul Mogg could try my alternative (with the DC30+ drivers) and tell me (He's the only one I know that already has a DP 2Ghz).

Steven Galvano · November 4th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Eric,

Is there a better capture utility for the PC?

I'll try your solution tomorrow, I think I can deal with 22.9m/s. I was just worried about losing something with the Pinnacle codec.
I'm even more worried about the add'l steps.

If I can get confirmation that I would maintain source quality with vegas (and how) I think I'd flop over for this project.

Anyone??

-Steven Galvano

November 4th, 2003, 05:22 AM	#1
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	I'll try to straighten things about my own workflow: offline HD MJPEG is based on the fact that I use the squared5 MJPEG (motion jpeg, a codec very commonly used by pro cards like the targas) codec at 30 to 40% quality to do offlime work (I tested that, but I usually use lossless to edit) Squared5 has designed a "booster engine" for FCP's RT capabilities, I use it, it does help. As for the not blazingly fast thing, it means that playback is not perfectly smooth (witch will not be an issue when my DP 2Ghz arrives). __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

November 4th, 2003, 07:24 AM	#2
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Amazing! How did you discover it? I gather it is different than Apple's MJPEG A/B. How so? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

November 4th, 2003, 05:56 PM	#4
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	I discovered the driver from Squared 5 a bit unintentionaly. I bought, 5 years ago, along with a G3 400, a pinnacle miro DC30+ card, a very good MJPEG based interlaced 720X480 video card. Pinnacle stopped support for the card 3 years ago so I was forced to use it with os 9. I pretty much had forgotten it but I discovered those unnoficial drivers via Apple's site and now my card is totally boosted, works much better than the original... Even more, you can choose to capture the DV stream from firewire to MJPEG for optimal quality even without the DC30. Anyway. As I believed it was great for SD, I thought why not give it a try with HD and it worked very well. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

November 4th, 2003, 06:02 PM	#5
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	I'm sorry Eric, I don't get it. this old card will capture HD into FCP and you can edit with it, etc? DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

November 4th, 2003, 06:11 PM	#6
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	No no, this old card is SD, but the codecs included can be used in HD definition with very good results (nothing to do with the card, as a matter of fact you do not need the card to use the codecs, just download and install the drivers and use them as any QT codecs). Sorry I got you confused, that was unclear... :) By the way the multicodec capture via firewire and the RT extreme booster engine for FCP can be used as well without the card. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

November 4th, 2003, 07:45 AM	#3
Steven Galvano Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 109	Eric, Can you lay out your entire workflow for us? Thanks! Steven Galvano

November 4th, 2003, 06:13 PM	#7
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	I'm still wondering how it differes from Apple's mJPEG codec. And the Booster sounds interesting too. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

November 4th, 2003, 06:15 PM	#8
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	My "workflow" is rather simple because I do not own a HD10 though I have very extensively tested the camera and I still use it often so I do not (for the moment) need the "back to tape" option. I capture via firewire using either DVHSCap or virtualVDHS (both work fine). I demux the m2t file using MPGTXwrap and then convert the remaining files to Quicktime DC30+ lossless using mpeg2decx. I normally use only video from the HD10 since I record sound on a DAT or else depending on the project. After that, I can tweek the image and recompress with the lossless codec. I end up with a very good lossless master from witch I make a MJPEG (DC30+) HD copy witch plays smoothly on my computer full screen. No big deal really, but it works fine. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

November 4th, 2003, 07:18 PM	#9
Steven Galvano Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 109	Eric, Sounds like a good solution. Would you agree that using Vegas on a PC would be a cleaner and potentially less lossy way of editing HD10 stuff?? It's uncomfortable thinking of getting a Pc to edit (being a lifelong MAC guy), but I've been searching for the best MAC "workaround" for a month now, and my head is starting to spin. With scores of hours of footage and a deadline, I need to move forward. thanks!! Steven Galvano

November 4th, 2003, 07:20 PM	#10
Josef Crow Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: new york, ny Posts: 66	Eric... or anybody else 1. Correct me if I'm wrong. The PC version of what you're doing would be: Capture via firewire (which program?). Then demux with Elcard's Video Decoder 2.0? 2. After capture and demuxing, what file type do you end up with? They must be huge!! (how big?) 3. What program do you edit with and does it have any problem working in real time? thanks

November 4th, 2003, 08:05 PM	#11
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Working with Vegas certainly is a better solution (more adapted), but lossless is, by definition lossless, so afer the capture, there is no loss with my alternative, thus Vegas is not a less lossy way of editing HDV. I do not use Vega but I do not know if the program uses a lossless or lossy compression. Steven, there is still the high end solution, mainly Decklink HD or AJA with converters and a small raid array witch works perfectly fine for macintosh. For PC you can capture with the utility that comes with the camera. I remember suggestions of recompressed schemes (like JPEG and lossless YUV) in older threads. I edit using FCP4, no real time (on my DP500 G4 but I expect some RT with my DP 2Ghz G5 (not yet arrived)). Maybe Paul Mogg could try my alternative (with the DC30+ drivers) and tell me (He's the only one I know that already has a DP 2Ghz). __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

November 4th, 2003, 08:16 PM	#12
Steven Galvano Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 109	Eric, Is there a better capture utility for the PC? I'll try your solution tomorrow, I think I can deal with 22.9m/s. I was just worried about losing something with the Pinnacle codec. I'm even more worried about the add'l steps. If I can get confirmation that I would maintain source quality with vegas (and how) I think I'd flop over for this project. Anyone?? -Steven Galvano