At Last -- OS X FCP back to HDV videotape

[Steve Mullen]

Since Heuris has failed both to release its $600 D-VHS encoder and their $5000 encoder doesn't support the HDV camcorder -- I've been hard at work.

Using ffmpegX with my HDVviaduct plug-in (bundled with 4HDV), you can move the resulting MPEG-2 Program Stream file to:

* any PC via LAN/WLAN
* Virtual PC running on your Mac

Using either, the Womble MPEG2VCR ($120) will CONVERT a Program Stream file to Transport Stream file. (Womble is a PC-only program. There is no OS X program that will convert PS to TS.)

This happens quite fast, even under VPC, because nothing has to be decoded or recoded. No quality is lost.

Now move the TS file back to your Mac.

Then you can use DVHSCap to output the TS file to your HD1/HD10 camcorder.

Unfortunately, while you can record to D-VHS, playback is not acceptable.

You can also output via FireWire to either a D-VHS deck or HDV camcorder -- to transcode to HD YPbPr. Now you can present from a Mac to an HDTV.

[Heath McKnight]

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : Since Heuris has failed both to release its $600 D-VHS encoder and their $5000 encoder doesn't support the HDV camcorder -- I've been hard at work.

Using ffmpegX with my HDVviaduct plug-in (bundled with 4HDV), you can move the resulting MPEG-2 Program Stream file to:

* any PC via LAN/WLAN
* Virtual PC running on your Mac

Using either, the Womble MPEG2VCR ($120) will CONVERT a Program Stream file to Transport Stream file. -->>>

Why do we need Virutal PC? Is it necessary? Or even a PC in general?

To recap:

1. 4HDV.
2. SDK17 (from Apple).
3. QT 6 mpeg2 encoder.
4. ffmpegX for?? and you buy it where??
5. mpeg2vcr ($120) that we buy where??

heath

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Why do we need Virutal PC? Is it necessary? Or even a PC in general?
-->>

Sorry, Womble is a PC-only program. There is no OS X program that will convert PS to TS. I've updated my original post, thank you.

If you don't have a PC:

1. 4HDV ($100)
2. QT 6 mpeg2 Decoder (from Apple $20).
3. ffmpegX ($15)
3. mpeg2vcr ($120)
4. VPC from Apple ($130)

TOTAL $355

HD editing--priceless


4HDV gives you links to where you get all software so you don't need to worry about WHERE now.

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

FFmpegX is a nice little shareware app. It does not do the actual compression, it is just a user interface for some Unix code (which you can run under OSX) to make DivX, MPEG1, MPEG2 and MPEG4 movies. You have to download some of the Unix code on your own. It's a nice hack, but not very easy to use sometimes. The Unix code reads video directly, not through QuickTime so you can't just toss anything into it.

[Steve Mullen]

Actually, it does use QT for decode.

In any case, from FCP one makes a movie (.mov) which is used by ffmpegX.

And the latest version is very easy to use -- with 4HDV docs.

Don't scare Heath with "UNIX code."

The software is written in C, just like Mac applications. And compiled for the Mac.

And, strictly speaking all the code are OS X versions as there are versions for Linux and Windows too.

Remember, without HDVbridge from 4HDV, ffmpegX only does SD--not HD.

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> Don't scare Heath with "UNIX code."

Didn't mean to scare. Didn't scare me, shouldn't scare him either. At least for me it has not been a breeze to use, whatever language or compiler was used, but it is usable and you need not be a guru of any kind.

> without HDVbridge from 4HDV, ffmpegX only does SD--not HD.

You mean you need 4HDV to read files from the HD1/HD10, right? I ask because I had no trouble making a 1280x720 Divx file. Took about 20 minutes for a 2 minute file on my 400 MHz G4.

So, it is possible to make an 'HD' slideshow style video, using computer graphics, stills, etc. without even having to have an HD camera! Cool, eh? Of course, it's not really video.

Note: on my Mac the 24p DivX I made would only play at about about 20 fps :-(

--
i.

[Eric Bilodeau]

This solution is still not a Mac solution. I already used it a few weeks back but it is a joint mac-pc solution not that complicated to figure out. On virtual PC unless you have a very fast G4 it is long and highly unstable. I still wait for a Mac solution that involves less than a 5 step compression... Still it is better than nothing... I agree.

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : On virtual PC unless you have a very fast G4 it is long and highly unstable. Still it is better than nothing... I agree. -->>>

If you do it right it's only 50% longer than realtime. No decoding or encoding is done. Just the change from PS to TS. Nothing unstable about it. I have no idea what you are doing.


And, I have no idea what you mean by "less than a 5 step compression." There is always only 1 decode and 1 recode. That's the key to keeping quality high.

I don't think you are using 4HDV, so you must be using some other scheme.

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Rodriguez : You mean you need 4HDV to read files from the HD1/HD10, right? -->>>

The JVC files are incompatible with the Apple MPEG-2 decoder. So you need HDVbridge to solve this.

And you need HDVviaduct to get HD MPEG-2.

Two blocks and two solutions.

[Eric Bilodeau]

1-demux, 2-uncompress, 3-edit, 4-recompress, 5-re-mux, looks like at least 5 steps, not counting capture, transfer to VPC, transfer back to mac and transfer to the HD10. As for the unstability and speed issue it does not concern the process itself but virtual PC, it is much faster to do it on a linked PC.

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> This solution is still not a Mac solution. I already used it a few
> weeks back but it is a joint mac-pc solution not that complicated
> to figure out. On virtual PC unless you have a very fast G4 it is
> long and highly unstable. I still wait for a Mac solution that
> involves less than a 5 step compression...

Well you can wait, but I firmly believe HD is important to Apple so you will not need to wait long. I could bet they are already working on a solution. Once QuickTime and Apple's MPEG2 codec are updated for HDV, working with this standard will be as easy as working with DV is today.

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Eric Bilodeau : 1-demux, 2-uncompress, 3-edit, 4-recompress, 5-re-mux, looks like at least 5 steps. -->>>

Language problem. You said ""less than a 5 step compression."" The key word being Compression.

Yes, there are many steps. But,now matter how you slice it most of these will have to be done.

[Heath McKnight]

I'm not a unix loser, well, actually I am. I just had to defend my honor. ;-)

Still sounds like a lot of trouble for editing, but until Steve creates a different solution, or when someone has one, looks like we have to do all the steps.

BTW, how big is a one second file of HDV? Compressed and uncompressed?

I know DV is 3.6 mb per second, and I think that's compressed...

Back to my DVD...Shoot me now...Maybe I'll just cough up the cash to have someone else do it.

heath

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- I could bet they are already working on a solution.

Once QuickTime and Apple's MPEG-2 codec are updated for HDV, working with this standard will be as easy as working with DV is today. -->>>

Of course they are working on a solution. And they have told me it will be as "easy as DV."

But that's why it's not like you describe. Transport Stream into FCP is not hard. You can get TS into Vegas right now.

Now ask a Vegas editor how fast the TS plays? Not only is it not realtime--it plays way under 30fps. So how are you going to edit?

Clearly Apple will not be able to stop there. It's got to make a realtime solution. 4HDV is already realtime. That means not a simple converter. FCP needs to really work with MPEG-2.

Then you need to get TS out. Which means Apple has to get a TS encoder. Really, an HD MPEG-2 encoder + a TS muxer. Heuris charges $5000 for this.

This will all take time. If we're lucky, MacWorld. Otherwise NAB 2004. Plus, Apple may prefer to wait until the Sony arrives as it is likely to be 1080i.

Ask Aspect how long they have been working. And 480p isn't even here yet.

I expect FCP V5 next year. And, it may be G5 only.

That's because HDV isn't at all like DV. Very different.

[Eric Bilodeau]

compressed HDV (720) is about 2.4 MB/s and uncompressed is about 65 to 70 MB/s, pretty heavy, around 4GB a minute.

Steve's got a point here, it might just be a G5 solution (for realtime) and it should take some time but they will work around the clock to be the first to offer a complete solution like DV.