At Last -- OS X FCP back to HDV videotape

[Dave Largent]

And when one hour of uncompressed HD is compressed to Windows Media Video 9 the size is about 4GB. Would fit on a DVD. Hmmmmm. Although, at the lowest bit rate that would keep the image looking decent -- around 6.5Mbps -- it would take the average computer around 70 hours to encode it!
On the issue of Vegas, do I understand it right that even though Vegas *will* work with transport steams, the reason for demuxing using MPEG2toDVD is that this enables Vegas to preview in *realtime*?

[Heath McKnight]

Not to get off subject, but I hope they don't come out with FCP 5 next year. what a waste of money. I'll skip 4 altogether then.

heath

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> Steve's got a point here, it might just be a G5 solution (for realtime)
> and it should take some time but they will work around the clock to
> be the first to offer a complete solution like DV.

Yes. Perhaps in the mean time they can have something soon that uses proxies in JPEG or DV, renders HD and works on G4.

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Not to get off subject, but I hope they don't come out with FCP 5 next year. what a waste of money. I'll skip 4 altogether then.

heath -->>>

I purposely did NOT require v4 because I suspect many have not upgraded from v3.


Working with both HD and MPEG-2 is a big effort. 4HDV divides the job into stages. With a enough compute power one would not need to do so.

I think the G5 -- perhaps a dual G5 -- will be Apple's key to realtime CAPTURE and EDITING of HDV.

You could say HDV and the G5 are made for each other.

Of course, that leaves out PowerBook folks.

By the way 4HDV makes the files you edit with MUCH smaller. You can edit on a G4 Powerbook. And leave source on a big FW drive.

Apple has been known to promote a new solution while leaving current products behind. I have the reverse incentive. That's why 4HDV has a long life.

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> Apple has been known to promote a new solution while leaving
> current products behind. I have the reverse incentive.
> That's why 4HDV has a long life.

Good! 'cause in the third world buying a new computer every two years is just not possible for most of us.

[Brian Mitchell Warshawsky]

If the intent is to distribute a production via DVD, is it possible to use the JVC to capture HD quality footage in 720P mode, down-convert to SD and edit in 16:9 realtime, but with the idea that at a later date (once full realtime HD editing is problem-free) retain the option to edit and output the original tapes in HD mode?

My thinking is that the SD mode display of the original HD footage may be superior to SD originated footage, and that it may be possible to complete a project now in SD mode using available DV tools without completely abandoning the original HD footage; essentially saving the HD for later.

If this assumption is correct, would editing in SD mode (from HD native footage) solve all of the current editing problems?

Thanks for your insight,

Brian

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> My thinking is that the SD mode display of the original HD footage
> may be superior to SD originated footage, and that it may be possible
> to complete a project now in SD mode using available DV tools
> without completely abandoning the original HD footage;
> essentially saving the HD for later.

I don't think the result from recompressing MPEG2 to DV will be better than what you can get from a native DV 16:9 camera. So if quality for today is the priority it might not be a good idea to use HDV. Then again the quality loss from recompressing might not be that bad. In general, I think your idea makes a lot of sense. I decided to hold off on HDV for now and bought a cheaper native 16:9 DV camera. That was before I knew about 4HDV and this site. I would think that if production speed and SD quality are the priority, like if doing some local ENG, use DV from start to finish because you will not care much for the original footage in 6 months anyway. But if you have time and are doing documentary work, fiction, etc., stuff that will have value in the future, then spend the extra time and use HDV. Mine is the later case but I unfortunately came to realize this recently, after buing a DV camera. Not that I am unhappy with the SD gear in itself, but knowing that in three years from now my footage will have a role similar to what VHS footage has today in a DV world is, well, not very inspiring.

[Heath McKnight]

Ignacio,

Despite some slow parts, my old 400 mhz G4 TiBook helped me touch up my movie for DVD, cut a short film, an 18 minute doc (most of it) and a couple of both long and short video projects for friends and family. Good computer! DVD Studio Pro 2 is a different story...But you should be able to edit 4HDV, albeit slowly.

heath

[Brian Mitchell Warshawsky]

Heath,

If memory serves me correctly, your production was shot in color, but displayed in B&W. Was this film shot in HD?

Does it make sense to shoot HD now and edit in SD for distribution on DVD, but with the idea that your HD footage may at a later date have a future, i.e. be re-edited at full resolution?

I'm looking for a way to balance the desire to create a full length zero-budget feature with the HD10u's reality, and putting off editing the HD footage for later appears to be the solution provided I can have it both ways: Shoot in HD, downconvert to SD for easy editing, and output on DVD, and if a distributor likes what they see, still be in a position to return to the original HD footage.

What do you think? And isn't it true that the HD cannot reside on the DVD anyway?

[Heath McKnight]

Well, two of my films, a feature (SKYE FALLING) and a short (PUSH/PULL) were shot on DV, a Canon XL-1 (along with a GL-1 on PUSH/PULL). SKYE is in both black and white and color, PUSH/PULL is only in color. I shot everything in color, but someone has told me I may want to try shooting in B&W for my next film. Something about the image when going from color to B&W.

I remember, about 4 or 5 years ago, Jorge Lucas, el director de STAR WARS (sorry, taking Spanish in college right now) said he wouldn't go to DVD with SW until the Blue Laser HD DVDs were out. Well, demand beat that and now the Blue (and Red) Laser HD DVDs are here (or soon enough). But regular DVD-R, DVD-5 and -9 can't do HD. You'll have to go to SD. I know, the T2 Extreme Edition DVD that came out in early June 2003 claims the original film is in HD on the second disc. And you need Windows XP Pro (!) with a minimum 2 ghz (!!) machine to watch it. Apparently it's with Windows Media 9 (is that the right name), which is the Windows HD standard, I guess. Who knows if it really is HD or not. I don't have XP Pro. But we do at work...I wonder how fast our desktop machines are...? (We have Apple FCP edit systems, fyi--TV news).

A lot of that stuff is still alien to me, and even though I'm shooting a short film on the HD10 (full report after we wrap), I'm not moving too quick to edit. Mostly because I don't have the $400 needed to do so with FCP. The good news is, a friend of mine, who wants to work with me on a future, much higher-budgeted project, who shoots with a CineAlta and VariCam, is DP-ing, so this should really make for a good "test."

heath

[Dave Largent]

Steve, with 4HDV, you mentioned that the editing files are smaller than uncompressed HD. How is this accomplished? By reducing the size of the uncompressed HD? Or is the m2t file converted directly to this other (smaller) file you mentioned (i.e. skipping the total deompression step)? And *what* are the files you'd be using (i.e. their file extension)?

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Largent : Or is the m2t file converted directly to this other (smaller) file you mentioned (i.e. skipping the total deompression step)? And *what* are the files you'd be using (i.e. their file extension)? -->>>

I'm not sure what you mean by "total decompression."

To work in realtime the TS must be demuxed and decompressed and recompressed to a proxy movie (.mov).

This file is smaller by a factor of 10.

So you can keep the MPEG-2 files on a FW disk while you go edit on your powerbook. You won't need them till all your realtime editing is done.

Ah-you need to take the audio with you!