The quest for HDV->DVD :( at DVinfo.net

Igor Garber · February 12th, 2009, 08:45 AM

Hey all.

Found a million threads on this, but seems like none contained an answer. So my story is the usual - I'll keep it short. Captured HDV via HDVSplit, edited in Premiere (tried both CS3 and CS4) and tried to export to a DVD format. First tried the *.m2v export, then straight to Encore. CS4 is slightly better then CS3, but still not good. At this point, I'm at a loss. I can't spend much more money, the last option I'll try tonight will be Sony Vegas.

Has anyone been able to achieve a good HDV->DVD conversion in a simple way?

Thanks in Advance.

Brian Boyko · February 12th, 2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igor Garber

Hey all.

Found a million threads on this, but seems like none contained an answer. So my story is the usual - I'll keep it short. Captured HDV via HDVSplit, edited in Premiere (tried both CS3 and CS4) and tried to export to a DVD format. First tried the *.m2v export, then straight to Encore. CS4 is slightly better then CS3, but still not good. At this point, I'm at a loss. I can't spend much more money, the last option I'll try tonight will be Sony Vegas.

Has anyone been able to achieve a good HDV->DVD conversion in a simple way?

Thanks in Advance.

*shrug*

I use Sony Vegas. Y'all are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

I captured AVCHD, edited in Vegas, output to uncompressed AVI (though this'll work for .m2t - both as input and as output - as well)

The free route would be to use DVDFlick, which will do the conversion automatically (though you'll have to make sure that the project and video aspect ratios match - so create and mount some ISOs to check before burning your master.) Paid route would be DVD Architect, which comes with Sony Vegas Pro... though I think Sony's more consumer-based DVD authoring software will come in handy as well.

Basically, do the editing in the NLE, let the authoring software worry about the conversion to .m2v.

Igor Garber · February 12th, 2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

*shrug*

I use Sony Vegas. Y'all are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

This is the kind of answer I'm looking for. I will give Vegas a try tonight - if it doesn't produce a good quality DVD, I may have to got the "complicated" route.

Ed Breen · February 12th, 2009, 02:14 PM

I'm hearing the same thing as Brian is saying about making it overcomplicated... I've been about 3 months, from FCE 4 to FCP 6 and still haven't gotten a satisfactory output. A lot of my issue has been the fact its HDV 60p. There are way too many options with only simple differences in each. My advice is trial and error and trust me ... I've been there.

Good luck ... I'm getting pretty close to getting something to DVD. I shot using JVC HD200U and using FCP, Compressor and DVD Studio Pro to get to disc. When I get it done ... I'll try to remember to post my workflow.

Some good advice I can give you is to trust Tim Dashwood's contributions. This guy knows his stuff!

Cliff Etzel · February 12th, 2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

*shrug*

I use Sony Vegas. Y'all are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be...

Basically, do the editing in the NLE, let the authoring software worry about the conversion to .m2v.

I'm with Bryan on this one - my experience personally and reading from others is that the hoop jumping that has to take place when using any other NLE besides Vegas is a major time and money waster.

I shoot with a pair of SONY HC7's, edit now with Cineform NEO Scene AVI's and then I use a free script from VASST called DVD Prep in Vegas Pro 8. Run the script, it automatically creates the necessary mpg and AC-3 file right from the Vegas timeline - I then import into DVDA and burn as widescreen DVD and it looks great - highly recommended.

If I need an up to 30 minute bluray disc, I can also burn right from the timeline to a standard DVD and it plays great in a SONY PS3 - I have yet to find a less is more solution than Vegas Pro for my editing needs.

Tripp Woelfel · February 12th, 2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Etzel

I'm with Bryan on this one - my experience personally and reading from others is that the hoop jumping that has to take place when using any other NLE besides Vegas is a major time and money waster.

I'm going to have to differ with your somewhat myopic view. I'll grant you that Vegas is a quality product that many use every day with great results. But there are needs where other products may better fill the bill. Or, there are people who have developed uncomplicated and functional workflows that others may not have found. Like they say, different strokes...

To the OP's question, I'm not sure exactly what your issue is. I go from HDV to BD with no issues and without excess hoop jumping. You seem to be following conventional workflows. Is it the output quality that you're not happy with?

Ervin Farkas · February 12th, 2009, 08:42 PM

Procoder does a very good job, and it works as a plugin in Premiere Pro, no need to render separately. Handles interlacing and field order automatically, has filter for color standard conversion. No mice teeth, no blurry video. Fast, and affordable too at $0.5K.

Slightly better is the Virtualdub method but that takes so much work, it's not worth it - unless you work with exceptionally high quality source material, much higher than HDV.

Ervin Farkas · February 12th, 2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

To the OP's question, I'm not sure exactly what your issue is. I go from HDV to BD with no issues and without excess hoop jumping.

The OP is asking about HDV to (SD) DVD, not to BD.

Igor Garber · February 12th, 2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

To the OP's question, I'm not sure exactly what your issue is. I go from HDV to BD with no issues and without excess hoop jumping. You seem to be following conventional workflows. Is it the output quality that you're not happy with?

My issue was is that using PPCS3/4 to convert HDV to Widescreen SD looked really bad on my DVD player. I bought an HDV camera with the plan that I'll work in HD but for now output in SD and when the rest of the world has a BluRay player, I'll re-render the projects in HD. I've tried several setting in PPRO3/4 and have not gotten a satisfactory result.

Following advice in this thread, I downloaded trials for Vegas and DVD architect. The result is excellent. It's no HD, but a very decent SD conversion, close to what I was getting with my former VX2100.

It's a shame really. I've used Premiere since version 6.0 came out and I hate to give up on it, just because it can't perform a simple task. We'll see what CS5 will be like :)

Tripp Woelfel · February 13th, 2009, 07:29 AM

Firstly, sorry for getting the OP's intent wrong. I was trying to get back on track and missed the track entirely.

Igor, Am I correct in understanding that you used the trail of Vegas and DVD architect to create a DVD from SD DV and not HDV? If that's true you're kinda comparing apples and armadillos. Making a DVD from SD video takes fewer steps to make since you're keeping the same basic format. For example, NTSC, standard def, 60i (lower field first) as both input and output.

Going from HDV to DVD is virtually a format conversion. You're changing resolution and how it's interlaced (assuming you didn't shoot progressive). By definition this will be more complex and more than a bit tricky. Although I too am still working out the best workflow for this, I've come to learn that there are certain steps that must be taken in a specific order or things go pear shaped very quickly. For example, if you're going to deinterlace, you must do that before you down-res.

My main problem with Adobe on this is that they strew the parameters for doing this across several, sometimes non related screens. It makes a non-intuitive process even more complex.

Igor Garber · February 13th, 2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

Igor, Am I correct in understanding that you used the trail of Vegas and DVD architect to create a DVD from SD DV and not HDV? .

I apologize if I didn't explain this well. The source footage is HDV, captured as HDV(m2t files). I edited the footage and wanted to create two types of output: HD (Blu-Ray compliant MPEG) and Widescreen SD (DVD compliant MPEG)

The problem was is that PPRO did not do the second step well, at least without those extra steps you mentioned. I don't mind the extra steps, if someone told me what they should be. I combed the Internet all day yesterday, found a thousand threads complaining of the same thing, but almost no answers. There was one, but it involved downloading AviSynth, TMPEGEnc, VirtualDub, Plugins, Scripts... This should not be that difficult of a process.

Brian Boyko · February 13th, 2009, 02:54 PM

Keep in mind; you don't -need- to use Vegas as your NLE, though it does make things easier, I guess.

Trick is - don't worry about making the DVD out of the NLE, wait till you get to the DVD authoring software to do any transcoding.

Ron Evans · February 13th, 2009, 03:55 PM

I use Edius to edit but use Vegas to set chapter markers with naming, encode to Bluray preset to go to Architect 5.0 for Bluray authoring. I then use the master file( HDV or Canopus HQ) from Edius and use TMPgenc to encode for SD and substitute in the Architect authoring so that both the Bluray and SD DVD have the same menus though Architect does have a problem with "return to last menu" at the moment. I find that TMPGenc encode is the best of all the encoders I have and is easy to see data rate and effect on filling the disc etc. With TMPGenc Authorworks 4 you could do the whole thing in one program too.

Ron Evans

John Stakes · February 13th, 2009, 04:14 PM

I don't get it maybe I'm still a newb. Is this consensus of this thread suggesting that footage encoded in Vegas and footage encoded in Premiere can be visually deciphered? Given they are both .mpeg files?

Ron Evans · February 13th, 2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stakes

I don't get it maybe I'm still a newb. Is this consensus of this thread suggesting that footage encoded in Vegas and footage encoded in Premiere can be visually deciphered? Given they are both .mpeg files?

I am not sure what you mean by deciphered. Mpeg encoders are definitely not all equal. There are some good ones and ones that are really poor. Most have all sorts of parameters that can be changed by the users too. I want one that encodes a very good image and is fast and TMPGenc meets both these requirements better than any of the others I have. Encoders run from 1 pass CBR, 1 pass VBR, 2 pass VBR etc using 1 CPU core using multi cores etc, all providing very visibly different quality levels of the output. Frankly the ones included with Encore or Architect for SD encoding are not the best for quality or speed when compared to TMPGenc.

Ron Evans

February 12th, 2009, 08:45 AM	#1
Igor Garber New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Morris Plains, NJ Posts: 21	The quest for HDV->DVD :( Hey all. Found a million threads on this, but seems like none contained an answer. So my story is the usual - I'll keep it short. Captured HDV via HDVSplit, edited in Premiere (tried both CS3 and CS4) and tried to export to a DVD format. First tried the *.m2v export, then straight to Encore. CS4 is slightly better then CS3, but still not good. At this point, I'm at a loss. I can't spend much more money, the last option I'll try tonight will be Sony Vegas. Has anyone been able to achieve a good HDV->DVD conversion in a simple way? Thanks in Advance.

February 12th, 2009, 02:14 PM	#4
Ed Breen Tourist Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: St. John's Newfoundland Canada Posts: 2	Good Luck I'm hearing the same thing as Brian is saying about making it overcomplicated... I've been about 3 months, from FCE 4 to FCP 6 and still haven't gotten a satisfactory output. A lot of my issue has been the fact its HDV 60p. There are way too many options with only simple differences in each. My advice is trial and error and trust me ... I've been there. Good luck ... I'm getting pretty close to getting something to DVD. I shot using JVC HD200U and using FCP, Compressor and DVD Studio Pro to get to disc. When I get it done ... I'll try to remember to post my workflow. Some good advice I can give you is to trust Tim Dashwood's contributions. This guy knows his stuff!

February 12th, 2009, 08:42 PM	#7
Ervin Farkas Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta/USA Posts: 2,515	Procoder does a very good job, and it works as a plugin in Premiere Pro, no need to render separately. Handles interlacing and field order automatically, has filter for color standard conversion. No mice teeth, no blurry video. Fast, and affordable too at $0.5K. Slightly better is the Virtualdub method but that takes so much work, it's not worth it - unless you work with exceptionally high quality source material, much higher than HDV. __________________ Ervin Farkas www.AtlantaLegalVideo.com

February 13th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#12
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	Keep in mind; you don't -need- to use Vegas as your NLE, though it does make things easier, I guess. Trick is - don't worry about making the DVD out of the NLE, wait till you get to the DVD authoring software to do any transcoding. __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

February 13th, 2009, 07:29 AM	#10
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Firstly, sorry for getting the OP's intent wrong. I was trying to get back on track and missed the track entirely. Igor, Am I correct in understanding that you used the trail of Vegas and DVD architect to create a DVD from SD DV and not HDV? If that's true you're kinda comparing apples and armadillos. Making a DVD from SD video takes fewer steps to make since you're keeping the same basic format. For example, NTSC, standard def, 60i (lower field first) as both input and output. Going from HDV to DVD is virtually a format conversion. You're changing resolution and how it's interlaced (assuming you didn't shoot progressive). By definition this will be more complex and more than a bit tricky. Although I too am still working out the best workflow for this, I've come to learn that there are certain steps that must be taken in a specific order or things go pear shaped very quickly. For example, if you're going to deinterlace, you must do that before you down-res. My main problem with Adobe on this is that they strew the parameters for doing this across several, sometimes non related screens. It makes a non-intuitive process even more complex.

February 13th, 2009, 03:55 PM	#13
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	I use Edius to edit but use Vegas to set chapter markers with naming, encode to Bluray preset to go to Architect 5.0 for Bluray authoring. I then use the master file( HDV or Canopus HQ) from Edius and use TMPgenc to encode for SD and substitute in the Architect authoring so that both the Bluray and SD DVD have the same menus though Architect does have a problem with "return to last menu" at the moment. I find that TMPGenc encode is the best of all the encoders I have and is easy to see data rate and effect on filling the disc etc. With TMPGenc Authorworks 4 you could do the whole thing in one program too. Ron Evans

February 13th, 2009, 04:14 PM	#14
John Stakes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 558	I don't get it maybe I'm still a newb. Is this consensus of this thread suggesting that footage encoded in Vegas and footage encoded in Premiere can be visually deciphered? Given they are both .mpeg files?