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Craig Bellaire · January 30th, 2009, 02:09 PM

OK as I look to upgrade my software for PC-HD editing I am looking at all the software and am disappointed... I've used Premier Pro since 6.0... Premier DOES degrade the original footage and with HD it will more important...

It seems like no matter what you will need to transcode the original footage from MPG2, HDV, H264...for any computer... I have a quad core now...

Premier Pro CS3-4 1500.00 plus Cineform 500.00 = 2000.00
Edius- 500.00 and transcode to HQ and edit = 500.00
Speed Edit No transcoding, edit in Speed HQ = 500.00
Avid Media Composer v3.0.. Not really sure about... $300.00 Educational pricing
Vegas... again Not sure about transcoding... 500.00

My point is that why spend more money to go to Cineform which is a great product if you can buy an editor that skips this transcoding and takes up the HD space...

SpeedEdit seems to even be 4:2:2 editing out of the box...

Now as for the Edius/Canopus HQ I understand it's NOT 1920x1080...

And as for 8 vs 10 BIT 4:2:2... it seems like they keep 8 vs 10 hidden deep inside the vaults..

Anyway help or input would be nice... Thanks Craig

Perrone Ford · January 30th, 2009, 02:21 PM

Well, depending on what you want to do, you have a lot of options.

Vegas does not need to transcode, and is 4:4:4 on the timeline. However, depending on source and machine speed, you may not get smooth playback. There are workarounds for that, but such is the price for not having to transcode.

Vegas can also do 10-bit decoding and encoding BUT can only encode 10-bit into quicktime codecs which are quite slow on the Vegas timeline, but GREAT for mastering.

Vegas 8.0c is 2k capable and 8.1 (64bit) is 4k capable.

I'll let others talk about the other editors.

Craig Bellaire · January 30th, 2009, 05:23 PM

you say it's capable of 10 bit 444... is that a standard setting or does one have to set up their own project settings.... I have a quad core opteron 2.2 2 gig of ram and a few terabits of storage... thanks for the reply... Craig

Perrone Ford · January 30th, 2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bellaire

you say it's capable of 10 bit 444... is that a standard setting or does one have to set up their own project settings.... I have a quad core opteron 2.2 2 gig of ram and a few terabits of storage... thanks for the reply... Craig

Vegas works a lot differently than any other editor I've used. You don't really "set up" a project to work, though you can. I can use say a SD DV template, with any timecode I want, and then drop on AVCHD, HDV, RED footage, uncompressed SD or HD, and then just scrub or play the timeline. Vegas absolutely doesn't care.

If you've got a codec loaded that lets you read 4k 4:4:4 files. Vegas will put it on the timeline. And if you can render to 4:4:4 with that codec, Vegas will let you do it. I have dropped 2k files from the SI2k, RED footage, Avid DNxHD footage, and footage from my EX1 on the timeline together, and edited like it was all DV.

You WILL want more RAM, and as much processor as you can get. Unfortunately, Vegas does not leverage a GPU or fancy graphics cards. I kinda wish it would. Maybe in Vegas 9 Pro they will.

Oh, and you can change templates mid-stream if you want, and you can render out to any format you can think of, irrespective of your project settings. It has a LOT of positives. Some maddening negatives too though...

Andy Tejral · January 30th, 2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bellaire

Now as for the Edius/Canopus HQ I understand it's NOT 1920x1080...

Incorrect. It'll do that plus... EDIUS specs

Tripp Woelfel · January 30th, 2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bellaire

Premier DOES degrade the original footage and with HD it will more important...

Not sure that's an accurate way of putting it. Cuts only editing with no CC or effects applied PP will spit out exactly what you feed it with DV.

There are many ways to preserve quality with HDV in PP. Cineform is one of them.

I would disagree with your contention as a matter of course. Armed with an understanding of how both PP, compression, and the other bits that make up the world of digital video, I can womp on a PP timeline and still have it look great out the other end. I'm no genius. I just have a lot of practice.

Chris Barcellos · January 30th, 2009, 11:46 PM

You don't indicate what you are shooting with. So that is first problem with your post. HD, HDV, RED cam, or avchd. etc. Each editor will have different benefits.

I have had Premiere 6, upgraded to Pro2. Got a deal on Vegas Pro a little later, and started working with it. Seemed to simplistic at my first stab. I had to do less, and I felt I was missing something... put it down for a while. Later, as Pro 2 had some issue, I went back to Vegas again. Its a different feel, but in the end, after getting used to the interface, I find it faster and more user friendly than PPro. I've stopped upgrading Premiere.

When I bought Vegas, it was cheap entry. I bought Vegas 6 on line from BH, and at time, upgrade to 7 was $159.00. I Then upgraded to 8.. can't recall price.

I do use Cineform. It makes life simpler in terms of editing, and does not lose resolution with multiple re renders. It also uses less processing power.

Craig Bellaire · January 31st, 2009, 06:09 PM

So if I have Procoder which I do, convert to HQ and edit in PPR... any opinions? Also we are a University and get everything from JVC mpg 2 to avchd, to hdv and currenty shot XHG1 and want to change to the next level 4:2:2 camera... currently in the process... thanks

Jerry Hatfield · February 1st, 2009, 04:15 PM

Now as for the Edius/Canopus HQ I understand it's NOT 1920x1080...

A little clairification.

HQ can be 480 up to 1920. Here is where the catch is. You can not capture to 1920x1080 with software/firewire alone. You have to buy either the HDSTORM or HD Thunder.
Capturing by way of firewire still nets a 1440x1080 image.

ON the other hand, if you have captured a file with the 1920x1080 resolution you can convert that to HQ.
I use my Intensity Pro to capture 1920x1080 to either uncompressed or MJPEG. You can throw that into the bin and right click to convert. I usually just use the native file.
MJPEG performs much as the HQ codec does on my system.

When you are finished, you can export to 1920x1080 in various flavors.

Jerry

Craig Bellaire · February 1st, 2009, 07:17 PM

that helps a bunch..... thanks again...

January 30th, 2009, 02:09 PM	#1
Craig Bellaire Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422	Edit software OK as I look to upgrade my software for PC-HD editing I am looking at all the software and am disappointed... I've used Premier Pro since 6.0... Premier DOES degrade the original footage and with HD it will more important... It seems like no matter what you will need to transcode the original footage from MPG2, HDV, H264...for any computer... I have a quad core now... Premier Pro CS3-4 1500.00 plus Cineform 500.00 = 2000.00 Edius- 500.00 and transcode to HQ and edit = 500.00 Speed Edit No transcoding, edit in Speed HQ = 500.00 Avid Media Composer v3.0.. Not really sure about... $300.00 Educational pricing Vegas... again Not sure about transcoding... 500.00 My point is that why spend more money to go to Cineform which is a great product if you can buy an editor that skips this transcoding and takes up the HD space... SpeedEdit seems to even be 4:2:2 editing out of the box... Now as for the Edius/Canopus HQ I understand it's NOT 1920x1080... And as for 8 vs 10 BIT 4:2:2... it seems like they keep 8 vs 10 hidden deep inside the vaults.. Anyway help or input would be nice... Thanks Craig __________________ Craig Bellaire www.VerticalVideoSolutions.com

January 30th, 2009, 02:21 PM	#2
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Well, depending on what you want to do, you have a lot of options. Vegas does not need to transcode, and is 4:4:4 on the timeline. However, depending on source and machine speed, you may not get smooth playback. There are workarounds for that, but such is the price for not having to transcode. Vegas can also do 10-bit decoding and encoding BUT can only encode 10-bit into quicktime codecs which are quite slow on the Vegas timeline, but GREAT for mastering. Vegas 8.0c is 2k capable and 8.1 (64bit) is 4k capable. I'll let others talk about the other editors. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 30th, 2009, 05:23 PM	#3
Craig Bellaire Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422	Ok you say it's capable of 10 bit 444... is that a standard setting or does one have to set up their own project settings.... I have a quad core opteron 2.2 2 gig of ram and a few terabits of storage... thanks for the reply... Craig __________________ Craig Bellaire www.VerticalVideoSolutions.com

January 30th, 2009, 11:46 PM	#7
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	You don't indicate what you are shooting with. So that is first problem with your post. HD, HDV, RED cam, or avchd. etc. Each editor will have different benefits. I have had Premiere 6, upgraded to Pro2. Got a deal on Vegas Pro a little later, and started working with it. Seemed to simplistic at my first stab. I had to do less, and I felt I was missing something... put it down for a while. Later, as Pro 2 had some issue, I went back to Vegas again. Its a different feel, but in the end, after getting used to the interface, I find it faster and more user friendly than PPro. I've stopped upgrading Premiere. When I bought Vegas, it was cheap entry. I bought Vegas 6 on line from BH, and at time, upgrade to 7 was $159.00. I Then upgraded to 8.. can't recall price. I do use Cineform. It makes life simpler in terms of editing, and does not lose resolution with multiple re renders. It also uses less processing power. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 31st, 2009, 06:09 PM	#8
Craig Bellaire Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422	canopus HQ in PPRO So if I have Procoder which I do, convert to HQ and edit in PPR... any opinions? Also we are a University and get everything from JVC mpg 2 to avchd, to hdv and currenty shot XHG1 and want to change to the next level 4:2:2 camera... currently in the process... thanks __________________ Craig Bellaire www.VerticalVideoSolutions.com

February 1st, 2009, 04:15 PM	#9
Jerry Hatfield New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 7	Now as for the Edius/Canopus HQ I understand it's NOT 1920x1080... A little clairification. HQ can be 480 up to 1920. Here is where the catch is. You can not capture to 1920x1080 with software/firewire alone. You have to buy either the HDSTORM or HD Thunder. Capturing by way of firewire still nets a 1440x1080 image. ON the other hand, if you have captured a file with the 1920x1080 resolution you can convert that to HQ. I use my Intensity Pro to capture 1920x1080 to either uncompressed or MJPEG. You can throw that into the bin and right click to convert. I usually just use the native file. MJPEG performs much as the HQ codec does on my system. When you are finished, you can export to 1920x1080 in various flavors. Jerry

February 1st, 2009, 07:17 PM	#10
Craig Bellaire Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422	great... that helps a bunch..... thanks again... __________________ Craig Bellaire www.VerticalVideoSolutions.com