Workflow Problems/Questions at DVinfo.net

Ken Bates · December 31st, 2008, 02:49 AM

We could use a little help with a work flow issue,
I am trying to help a friend with a small After Effects project. She is shooting HD and I am working with AE7.
What is the recommended steps to bring HD footage into AE, work a little magic, and then export to a format that maintains the best quality, and can then be slipped back into a Vegas 8 time line for final editing. I am trying to stay uncompressed AVI as the clips are small and file size is an acceptable trade off here, as far as I can tell so far.
If someone has a best practice for this, it would help a lot.

Lorinda Norton · December 31st, 2008, 03:05 AM

Yes, it sure would help a lot. :) Ken and I have a due date of Jan. 1 so we really appreciate any and all advice!

Tripp Woelfel · December 31st, 2008, 07:34 AM

Your workflow should be the cleanest. You can export from AE using QT and the Animation codec. It's lossless but the file size is smaller than uncompressed. This is what I use for bits I'll use repeatedly like logos and such. I have CS3 so I rely heavily on Dynamic Link for one off clip processing.

Lorinda Norton · December 31st, 2008, 08:57 AM

Thanks for that, Tripp. Since Ken is the AE guy that falls in his department. :)

We've tried some things already but are having lots of problems, so we're trying to start from the top. For instance, sending m2t/mpg files didn't work for him so I was told to send AVI NTSC DV Widescreen clips. Is that the correct first step?

Bill Ravens · December 31st, 2008, 09:30 AM

IMHO, by going to DV intermediates at the front end of a workflow you're going to introduce a lot of quality degradation when you apply FX in AE. I would stay in HD until FX are completed and you're ready to downconvert and produce the mpeg2.

There's a number of fairly inexpensive intermediates that i like to use, very much. Bitjazz's SHEER is one. Cineform NEO HD is good too, but, may be too expensive for you. Another possibility is Avid's DNxHD, which is free from the Avid website. All three of these are MAC/PC agnostic.

Andy Olson · December 31st, 2008, 10:22 AM

I agree with Bill that you should stay in HD until the final render because you will maintain more resolution to apply your FX too. If you are on a PC, another HD intermediate is DVFilm Raylight AVI's. But like Cineform, it costs some money (about $150 on sale) so uncompressed is the cheapest.

If you have the space and cpu power then working with the uncompressed avi or quicktime will give you the best quality. Since you have gotten that to work it sounds like it would be the most reliable option.

Hope this helps,
Andy

Ken Bates · December 31st, 2008, 02:30 PM

I agree, staying in HD would be best. As somewhat of a "sub-contractor" on this I certainly want to maintain the image Quality as long as possible. I don't see any information that suggests AE7 should have a problem with HD footage per se'.

Lorinda Norton · December 31st, 2008, 06:27 PM

I read you guys' posts, looked up at the banner ad that said Cineform, went there and found Neo Scene for $129. That sounds like our ticket! Thanks so much, fellas. :)

Tripp Woelfel · December 31st, 2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda Norton

sending m2t/mpg files didn't work for him so I was told to send AVI NTSC DV Widescreen clips. Is that the correct first step?

I agree with the others. Stay HD. If you're looking for intermediate codecs I'll again suggest QT/Animation. If you pay for an intermediate codec, you'll need licenses for both of your machines. Double the cost. Using what you already have will save money and time. Since it's due in hours, do you have time to install/debug new software? Just a thought.

Bill Ravens · December 31st, 2008, 10:58 PM

Cineform sells their encoder. The decoder is available for free.

Ken Bates · December 31st, 2008, 11:15 PM

So, how does exporting in QT affect Linda when she has to bring in clips that I have modified this way. Is it not important to keep similar file times in a time line with Vegas, or other NLVE apps for that matter. That is something I was trying to keep a constancy on. Maybe for not good reason.

Robert Martens · December 31st, 2008, 11:35 PM

Shouldn't be a problem, Ken; part of preparing to help Lorinda with my end of the effects work involved installing the Vegas trial version, and I just tried importing a few different format .mov files. No difficulties that I could see, they all imported and sat nicely on the timeline. With the appropriate Quicktime codec installed on her machine, she'll be good to go.

Sorry I couldn't help you out sooner, but I didn't know you guys still needed to figure this out (I didn't even know this thread was here). Not to mention the workflow I used was a rather convoluted process, one I just summarized in this thread but involving the .m2t file format and an extra step--Donald Graft's DGMPGDec plugin with its DGIndex program to prepare the file--and isn't something I imagine you'd want to slog through.

Good luck with your shots, I can't wait to see how it all comes out!

December 31st, 2008, 02:49 AM	#1
Ken Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 66	Workflow Problems/Questions We could use a little help with a work flow issue, I am trying to help a friend with a small After Effects project. She is shooting HD and I am working with AE7. What is the recommended steps to bring HD footage into AE, work a little magic, and then export to a format that maintains the best quality, and can then be slipped back into a Vegas 8 time line for final editing. I am trying to stay uncompressed AVI as the clips are small and file size is an acceptable trade off here, as far as I can tell so far. If someone has a best practice for this, it would help a lot. __________________ "...movies are never 'finished', only abandoned..." -Stephen Spielberg Last edited by Ken Bates; December 31st, 2008 at 02:51 AM. Reason: content

December 31st, 2008, 03:05 AM	#2
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Yes, it sure would help a lot. :) Ken and I have a due date of Jan. 1 so we really appreciate any and all advice! __________________ Lorinda

December 31st, 2008, 08:57 AM	#4
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Thanks for that, Tripp. Since Ken is the AE guy that falls in his department. :) We've tried some things already but are having lots of problems, so we're trying to start from the top. For instance, sending m2t/mpg files didn't work for him so I was told to send AVI NTSC DV Widescreen clips. Is that the correct first step? __________________ Lorinda

December 31st, 2008, 10:22 AM	#6
Andy Olson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 85	I agree with Bill that you should stay in HD until the final render because you will maintain more resolution to apply your FX too. If you are on a PC, another HD intermediate is DVFilm Raylight AVI's. But like Cineform, it costs some money (about $150 on sale) so uncompressed is the cheapest. If you have the space and cpu power then working with the uncompressed avi or quicktime will give you the best quality. Since you have gotten that to work it sounds like it would be the most reliable option. Hope this helps, Andy __________________ www.dvfilm.com

December 31st, 2008, 02:30 PM	#7
Ken Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 66	Staying in HD I agree, staying in HD would be best. As somewhat of a "sub-contractor" on this I certainly want to maintain the image Quality as long as possible. I don't see any information that suggests AE7 should have a problem with HD footage per se'. __________________ "...movies are never 'finished', only abandoned..." -Stephen Spielberg

December 31st, 2008, 07:34 AM	#3
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Your workflow should be the cleanest. You can export from AE using QT and the Animation codec. It's lossless but the file size is smaller than uncompressed. This is what I use for bits I'll use repeatedly like logos and such. I have CS3 so I rely heavily on Dynamic Link for one off clip processing.

December 31st, 2008, 09:30 AM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	IMHO, by going to DV intermediates at the front end of a workflow you're going to introduce a lot of quality degradation when you apply FX in AE. I would stay in HD until FX are completed and you're ready to downconvert and produce the mpeg2. There's a number of fairly inexpensive intermediates that i like to use, very much. Bitjazz's SHEER is one. Cineform NEO HD is good too, but, may be too expensive for you. Another possibility is Avid's DNxHD, which is free from the Avid website. All three of these are MAC/PC agnostic.

December 31st, 2008, 06:27 PM	#8
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	I read you guys' posts, looked up at the banner ad that said Cineform, went there and found Neo Scene for $129. That sounds like our ticket! Thanks so much, fellas. :) __________________ Lorinda

December 31st, 2008, 10:58 PM	#10
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Cineform sells their encoder. The decoder is available for free.

December 31st, 2008, 11:15 PM	#11
Ken Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 66	Export options So, how does exporting in QT affect Linda when she has to bring in clips that I have modified this way. Is it not important to keep similar file times in a time line with Vegas, or other NLVE apps for that matter. That is something I was trying to keep a constancy on. Maybe for not good reason. __________________ "...movies are never 'finished', only abandoned..." -Stephen Spielberg

December 31st, 2008, 11:35 PM	#12
Robert Martens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 820	Shouldn't be a problem, Ken; part of preparing to help Lorinda with my end of the effects work involved installing the Vegas trial version, and I just tried importing a few different format .mov files. No difficulties that I could see, they all imported and sat nicely on the timeline. With the appropriate Quicktime codec installed on her machine, she'll be good to go. Sorry I couldn't help you out sooner, but I didn't know you guys still needed to figure this out (I didn't even know this thread was here). Not to mention the workflow I used was a rather convoluted process, one I just summarized in this thread but involving the .m2t file format and an extra step--Donald Graft's DGMPGDec plugin with its DGIndex program to prepare the file--and isn't something I imagine you'd want to slog through. Good luck with your shots, I can't wait to see how it all comes out!