Pixlet and JVC HD1OU editing on Mac at DVinfo.net

Paul Mogg · July 19th, 2003, 11:32 AM

Hi folks,
I was just reading about the new Quicktime HD editing codec "Pixlet" that has been announced by Apple to come out wih Panther later this year. I was wondering if anyone in the know would like to speculate if this will enable editing of HDV footage from the JVC HD cam in FCP, and how the workflow would go? It seems like you'd have to first convert the HDV footage to the Pixlet codec. Does anyone know if native editing of the HDV format on the Mac will come at the same time as Pixlet?

Many thanks

Brad Hawkins · September 11th, 2003, 07:02 PM

Like Paul I am wondering if the "Pixlet" codec will allow native HDV editing on the Macintosh. It has been a couple of months since Paul posted this thread and if anyone out there has new information on this topic I'd love to hear it.

Brad

Steve Mullen · September 11th, 2003, 10:27 PM

I'm not sure why yet another codec would aid FCP editing?

Unless transcoding were done during capture there would still be a conversion stage.

And, would Pixlet support real-time editing? If not, it would be a step backward.

Eric Bilodeau · September 12th, 2003, 03:45 AM

I agree with Steve on that. But if Pixlet is indeed a fully supported and optimised QT plugin it might help nevertheless to work with HD material without a very fast workstation.

Steve Nunez · September 12th, 2003, 05:27 PM

Can anyone confirm that FCP4 will indeed have the ability to edit HD footage from these JVC cams?

And can anyone speculate as to how much "longer" the Mac will need to render out footage when compared to DV? 2X 3X ????

Darren Kelly · September 12th, 2003, 10:07 PM

Pixelet codec will be a playback codec only initially, it will not be a codec you can capture to.

It's not going to change our world here with the HDV format.

Cheers

DBK

Steve Mullen · September 13th, 2003, 02:56 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nunez : Can anyone confirm that FCP4 will indeed have the ability to edit HD footage from these JVC cams?

With my 4HDV package, FCP has HAS the ability now.

I expect Apple to add MPEG-2 TS support into FCP V5. It's a major job as they have told me they will not release a product that operates any differently than does FCP with DV.

That, as we are all learning is not simple.

Thankfully, the G5 gives them more compute cycles. And by next summer G5s will have fully replaced G4s so they could feel free to make G5 the minimum HDV editing machine. The new iMac has 160GB, so by next summer that could be 320GB.

Of course companies could add HDV support to work WITH their HD PCI boards. Then you would rent an HDCAM deck just to output the timeline via SDI-HD.

Brad Hawkins · September 13th, 2003, 09:37 AM

Good point Steve. I think outputting to an HDCAM deck could be a very important step in this process if one is going to have their work seen outside of their own house. People have constantly complained about the 30p not being a good frame rate for transfering to film, but I feel that the real delivery format for anything shot with this camera is probably going to be HDCAM or some other kind of HD tape format so the film can be shown digitally.

Steve Nunez · September 13th, 2003, 10:26 AM

Steve- quick question: with your package- could someone theoretically edit a HD project in FCP 3/4 and when done export back out to tape in HD?

Also, you may be familiar with direct to hd (hard drive/disk) devices- because they record directly from the firewire port to hd's- could this be a way to record HD content directly to disk in a native QT/avi etc format- or is this not possible- anyone try recording to a Firestore while shooting in HD mode- what happens to the resulting captures????

(Steve I'd be willing to go to your place in NYC and bring over the Firestore and check this out- in case you don't know the results)

Thanks Steve.

Steve Mullen · September 13th, 2003, 07:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nunez : Steve- quick question: with your package- could someone theoretically edit a HD project in FCP 3/4 and when done export back out to tape in HD? -->>>

Out to which HD tape format?

Steve Nunez · September 14th, 2003, 09:43 AM

Steve- sorry for not elaborating on what type- I meant can you edit the HD video in FCP and export back out to tape as an HD video to be viewed from the camcorder to a tv set?

Side Note:
Also to make matters more confusing- what could we expect if we were to record the HD video onto a set-top DVD recorder that has firewire inputs? Could we expect to get HD video onto a DVD-R this way?
Panasonic has a few set-top DVD-R recorders that have Firewire inputs to record digital video directly to DVD-R........just wondering what would happen if the JVC were outputting HD video while the DVD-R recorder were recording- any comments?? Theories?

David Newman · September 14th, 2003, 11:03 AM

Steve,

no that will not work. The set-top DVD recorders are expecting DV video on Firewire not MPEG2-TS data. It will be completely ignored. However, you could edit in HD and export in DV to use an external recorder if needed. The only issue is I don't think any of the set-top recorders correctly handle panamorphic 16:9 video.

Eric Bilodeau · September 14th, 2003, 11:45 AM

David is most probably right. maybe there could be a firmware update to enable mpeg2TS but it is unlikely for the moment. As for anamorphic DV, Sony might support that, they have a reputation to be very compatible but it remains to be seen.

Steve Nunez · September 14th, 2003, 01:59 PM

Just when we get to the pinnacle of DV technology and real time processing abilities of top line NLE's...we get teased with HD camcorders and a whole slew of compatibilty problems as well as standards conflicts (manufacturer wise)...and now of course we can't edit HD content in real time as the NLE's and desktop hardware have to play catch up to this technology....of course in 2 years when FCP5/6 and pc NLE's can handle HD just perfectly- they'll come out with 3D HD cams.......

...someone please tell me Canon is coming out with an HD camcorder- the time has come now!!!!

(anyone have any info on any future HD cams at all????)

I'm right there on the edge to get this JVC but something's telling me Canon is gonna come out with an HD cam with a better feature set- they seem to set high standards within prosumer video equip at modest prices...

....I might just bite the bullet and get the JVC and Steve Mullens program to edit the footage within FCP3......

....technology waits for NO one!!!!!

We live in exciting times- have fun guys!!!!

Hey quick ? to you JVC HD owners- what's the current storage needs for HD content- an hour of DV material is 13GB- what's an hour of HD content consume?

Steve Mullen · September 14th, 2003, 03:23 PM

Right now the only HD media is D-VHS and HDV tape--other than HDCAM and DVCPRO100.

However, we are all waiting on Heuris for an HD Transport Stream encoder. Please call/email and bug them for their $600 encoder. Paul and I both know it should have been released by now! They've got to be nuts to think folks will pay $5000. It's also time for folks to call BitVice and have them release an HD TS encoder.

HOWEVER

You can use a Mac or PC as a playback device. My 4HDV will let you encode HD for Mac/PC playback. It really looks good on a widescreen Mac! And Macs/PCs can feed a projector. Frankly, I've been enjoying viewing on a Mac with a Cinema Display.

AND

Sony has an HD DVD recorder now on sale in Japan and I've got a pix of JVCs HD DVD in my 4HDV Production Guide. So they are coming. If you've got $4000 you could order the Sony from Japan. But you still need a Transport Stream encoder!

CALL/EMAIL HEURIS!

July 19th, 2003, 11:32 AM	#1
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Pixlet and JVC HD1OU editing on Mac Hi folks, I was just reading about the new Quicktime HD editing codec "Pixlet" that has been announced by Apple to come out wih Panther later this year. I was wondering if anyone in the know would like to speculate if this will enable editing of HDV footage from the JVC HD cam in FCP, and how the workflow would go? It seems like you'd have to first convert the HDV footage to the Pixlet codec. Does anyone know if native editing of the HDV format on the Mac will come at the same time as Pixlet? Many thanks __________________ Paul

September 11th, 2003, 10:27 PM	#3
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	I'm not sure why yet another codec would aid FCP editing? Unless transcoding were done during capture there would still be a conversion stage. And, would Pixlet support real-time editing? If not, it would be a step backward. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 12th, 2003, 03:45 AM	#4
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	I agree with Steve on that. But if Pixlet is indeed a fully supported and optimised QT plugin it might help nevertheless to work with HD material without a very fast workstation. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

September 12th, 2003, 05:27 PM	#5
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Can anyone confirm that FCP4 will indeed have the ability to edit HD footage from these JVC cams? And can anyone speculate as to how much "longer" the Mac will need to render out footage when compared to DV? 2X 3X ???? __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

September 13th, 2003, 02:56 AM	#7
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nunez : Can anyone confirm that FCP4 will indeed have the ability to edit HD footage from these JVC cams? With my 4HDV package, FCP has HAS the ability now. I expect Apple to add MPEG-2 TS support into FCP V5. It's a major job as they have told me they will not release a product that operates any differently than does FCP with DV. That, as we are all learning is not simple. Thankfully, the G5 gives them more compute cycles. And by next summer G5s will have fully replaced G4s so they could feel free to make G5 the minimum HDV editing machine. The new iMac has 160GB, so by next summer that could be 320GB. Of course companies could add HDV support to work WITH their HD PCI boards. Then you would rent an HDCAM deck just to output the timeline via SDI-HD. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 11th, 2003, 07:02 PM	#2
Brad Hawkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 38	Like Paul I am wondering if the "Pixlet" codec will allow native HDV editing on the Macintosh. It has been a couple of months since Paul posted this thread and if anyone out there has new information on this topic I'd love to hear it. Brad

September 12th, 2003, 10:07 PM	#6
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	Pixelet codec will be a playback codec only initially, it will not be a codec you can capture to. It's not going to change our world here with the HDV format. Cheers DBK

September 13th, 2003, 09:37 AM	#8
Brad Hawkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 38	Good point Steve. I think outputting to an HDCAM deck could be a very important step in this process if one is going to have their work seen outside of their own house. People have constantly complained about the 30p not being a good frame rate for transfering to film, but I feel that the real delivery format for anything shot with this camera is probably going to be HDCAM or some other kind of HD tape format so the film can be shown digitally.

September 13th, 2003, 10:26 AM	#9
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Steve- quick question: with your package- could someone theoretically edit a HD project in FCP 3/4 and when done export back out to tape in HD? Also, you may be familiar with direct to hd (hard drive/disk) devices- because they record directly from the firewire port to hd's- could this be a way to record HD content directly to disk in a native QT/avi etc format- or is this not possible- anyone try recording to a Firestore while shooting in HD mode- what happens to the resulting captures???? (Steve I'd be willing to go to your place in NYC and bring over the Firestore and check this out- in case you don't know the results) Thanks Steve. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

September 13th, 2003, 07:51 PM	#10
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nunez : Steve- quick question: with your package- could someone theoretically edit a HD project in FCP 3/4 and when done export back out to tape in HD? -->>> Out to which HD tape format? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 14th, 2003, 09:43 AM	#11
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Steve- sorry for not elaborating on what type- I meant can you edit the HD video in FCP and export back out to tape as an HD video to be viewed from the camcorder to a tv set? Side Note: Also to make matters more confusing- what could we expect if we were to record the HD video onto a set-top DVD recorder that has firewire inputs? Could we expect to get HD video onto a DVD-R this way? Panasonic has a few set-top DVD-R recorders that have Firewire inputs to record digital video directly to DVD-R........just wondering what would happen if the JVC were outputting HD video while the DVD-R recorder were recording- any comments?? Theories? __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

September 14th, 2003, 11:03 AM	#12
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Steve, no that will not work. The set-top DVD recorders are expecting DV video on Firewire not MPEG2-TS data. It will be completely ignored. However, you could edit in HD and export in DV to use an external recorder if needed. The only issue is I don't think any of the set-top recorders correctly handle panamorphic 16:9 video.

September 14th, 2003, 11:45 AM	#13
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	David is most probably right. maybe there could be a firmware update to enable mpeg2TS but it is unlikely for the moment. As for anamorphic DV, Sony might support that, they have a reputation to be very compatible but it remains to be seen. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

September 14th, 2003, 01:59 PM	#14
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Just when we get to the pinnacle of DV technology and real time processing abilities of top line NLE's...we get teased with HD camcorders and a whole slew of compatibilty problems as well as standards conflicts (manufacturer wise)...and now of course we can't edit HD content in real time as the NLE's and desktop hardware have to play catch up to this technology....of course in 2 years when FCP5/6 and pc NLE's can handle HD just perfectly- they'll come out with 3D HD cams....... ...someone please tell me Canon is coming out with an HD camcorder- the time has come now!!!! (anyone have any info on any future HD cams at all????) I'm right there on the edge to get this JVC but something's telling me Canon is gonna come out with an HD cam with a better feature set- they seem to set high standards within prosumer video equip at modest prices... ....I might just bite the bullet and get the JVC and Steve Mullens program to edit the footage within FCP3...... ....technology waits for NO one!!!!! We live in exciting times- have fun guys!!!! Hey quick ? to you JVC HD owners- what's the current storage needs for HD content- an hour of DV material is 13GB- what's an hour of HD content consume? __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

September 14th, 2003, 03:23 PM	#15
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Right now the only HD media is D-VHS and HDV tape--other than HDCAM and DVCPRO100. However, we are all waiting on Heuris for an HD Transport Stream encoder. Please call/email and bug them for their $600 encoder. Paul and I both know it should have been released by now! They've got to be nuts to think folks will pay $5000. It's also time for folks to call BitVice and have them release an HD TS encoder. HOWEVER You can use a Mac or PC as a playback device. My 4HDV will let you encode HD for Mac/PC playback. It really looks good on a widescreen Mac! And Macs/PCs can feed a projector. Frankly, I've been enjoying viewing on a Mac with a Cinema Display. AND Sony has an HD DVD recorder now on sale in Japan and I've got a pix of JVCs HD DVD in my 4HDV Production Guide. So they are coming. If you've got $4000 you could order the Sony from Japan. But you still need a Transport Stream encoder! CALL/EMAIL HEURIS! __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c