Any suggestions???? at DVinfo.net

Tom Sullivan · January 22nd, 2008, 01:50 AM

I was curious if anyone had some suggestions for a video card?

I was given a server and I just finished what I hope to be the necessary repairs(have not fired it up yet). Anyway I am looking at two dual core 3.0 667mhz (Intel 5050 I believe it was) with 4 gig 677mhz of ram. Three 3.5 hot swap sas 73 gig 15K drives that came with it. I need to get a video card and a audio card and then I believe I should be in good shape. This machine will be dedicated to video and photography. Right now I will be just editing my dv footage I do plan on upgrading to a high def in a few months Probably but not definitely a AVCHD. So I would like to get a card for editing hd. I was thinking maybe.

Quadro FX 1500
I would like not to spend anymore than that unless really necessary. If there is some thing cheaper that would handle it that would be great

thanks in advance

Marcus Marchesseault · January 22nd, 2008, 01:17 PM

Unless you have an immediate plan to be doing 3D animation rendering, there is no need for a card like that FX1500. Video editing does not utilize the 3D card so your CPU is the only thing that helps. The one exception may be Magic Bullet. All you really need to be concerned with for editing is the number and type of connectors available. Most likely you will want two DVI or one DVI and one HDMI connector. Either of those configurations can be found for under $100. If you want a compromise between cost and performance, there are NVidia 8600-series cards with DVI and HDMI for under $200 and I'm sure there is an ATI equivalent.

The only advantage the quadro cards have is their OpenGL implementation in the drivers. Cards meant for gamers are usually faster and cost less if you don't need the OpenGL capabilities for something like Maya.

Themis Gyparis · January 22nd, 2008, 03:08 PM

The Quadro FX 1500 is a video display card, not a video card. What you need is a card with multiple outputs - certainly with a breakout box with DVI, composite, component, firewire inputs and outputs, not only for video but also for audio (inputs and outputs, that is).

These cards also have the ability to let you view what you're editing in an external monitor, in realtime, most times assisted by your CPU's power. What's most important, though, is that they allow for realtime compression to a number formats and realtime output to tape.

Finally, keep in mind that the hardware of all editing systems is specific, depending on the NLE software, which actually justifies the existence of turnkey systems, specially made by companies whose only job is to build them. It's best to go for such a workstation because that way you'll avoid countless problems in the future.

Adam Gold · January 22nd, 2008, 10:26 PM

So there you have it: two responses, one saying the card is too much and another saying it isn't enough. God, I love this forum.

A lot will depend on what type of editing you do and what software you use to do it. Premiere, for example, says it provides "Full Support" for the 1500 (as in fact it does for most current NVidia and ATI cards).

If you want to use a second monitor for full screen playback AND you are using Cineform products with Adobe Premiere, this is a good card for you by all accounts. Many people recommend a GeForce 8800GT or GTS as a lower priced alternative, but it cannot do the full screen display on a second monitor; this function has been deliberately disabled to force people to the more expensive Quadro line. And it really isn't that much cheaper, especially for the GTS/G92 flavor. But if the second fullscreen monitor isn't an issue it may be the way to go.

Most editing programs are fairly Video Card agnostic, as it's really CPU power that matters -- very few use the card heavily.

For a lengthier debate on this topic, check out this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=107204

Most of the debate is between posts #80 and #110.

I'm grappling with this very same issue myself, and with all the vociferous pros and cons voiced on this forum, I will likely go with the FX1500 as well, as I will be using that combination of software and want the full-screen overlay capability. As someone put it on the other thread, the 8800GT is unquestionably a faster card, but the lack of overlay is a deal-breaker.

Here's another, somewhat outdated but still very useful link to more info and guidance:

http://www.videoguys.com/DIY-GPU.html

Tom Sullivan · January 23rd, 2008, 01:18 AM

Thanks for all the replies. Adam the whole reason I picked the card was like you said the full support. As of right now this may not be an issue due too the fact that after starting up the server today I found that the copy of sever 2003 was not on there as I hoped. For now it looks as of right now I will probably be using Ubuntu, Vmware and Xp. I hear it works I just don't know if I am going to end up having more problems then it is worth. I may end up having to to try and finance a workstation, or I guess I could do a motherboard but that will bring on even more things to buy and right now I really do not have the money to put out.

I am more confused then ever ahhhhhhhh....

Anyone know prices on boxx or would anyone recommend Boxx????

Well now I guess some more suggestions, maybe for a very scalable very cheap entry level work station.(oxymoron?P:( ) Or the motherboard option?

stuck again

Thanks again

Marcus Marchesseault · January 23rd, 2008, 07:13 AM

Why pay $350 extra for the "full support" which really only adds what seems like a minor inconvenience when you have budget limitations? Also, where does the new motherboard fit in?

I could tell by the initial post that budget concerns were important. If this was a purchase part of a big software and expensive camera buy, I would say go for whatever video card you want. If you don't even have an HD camera, you don't need every bell and whistle available. It is perfectly acceptable to edit video from a regular card with two monitor outputs. For under $200 you could have an audio and video card and be up and running. I have no idea why a new motherboard would be necessary. I would also suggest only using one operating system until you get everything running smoothly and you find a need for the second OS.

It seems to me that you are searching out problems and expensive solutions. If you want to spend money, get a great set of sticks, a decent HD camera, and good mics. Mics and sticks will last for a long time and not be obsolete in six months.

Tom Sullivan · January 23rd, 2008, 01:40 PM

well the motherboard is because I am having issues with the server I was going to dedicate to video and photography. I have photoshop and Vegas for windows already so I did not want to use ubuntu. I also have a extra copy of vista and xp for the os. I was reading that the raid can be an issue which is the case for me with xp finding the hard drives, I have yet to try vista though. That was the reason for the vmware multiple os and workstation motherboard consideration. Sticks I have from my slr and I definitely need a mic but I was going to wait to see what camera I end up getting . The camera is first priority right now. I would prefer a cheaper card for right now especially during this learning process but I also want something that will work right. As I get better at this then I would like to spend money on a good workstation.

Adam Gold · January 23rd, 2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

Why pay $350 extra for the "full support" which really only adds what seems like a minor inconvenience when you have budget limitations?

It's not a bargain if it doesn't do what you want. And the FX1500 is only about $100 or so more than the 8800GTS.

But Tom, you're making this more complicated than it needs to be, and overall Marcus is right. If you already have Vegas then just go to the Sony site and buy the cheapest card they say they support. Almost any current card would work -- Vegas has pretty low system requirements. The only thing you want to avoid is integrated graphics.

Otherwise anything you get will be fine.

The consensus of opinion on this forum about Boxx is to avoid it. It's also mentioned in the thread I directed you to previously. Do a search in this forum.

Glenn Chan · January 23rd, 2008, 03:30 PM

1- I used to edit DV on a dual processor 500mhz G4. It worked fine.

Computers now are way faster and they still do the job. I wouldn't worry too much about your computer right now. Just get your feet wet... your computer should be fine (and should be pretty powerful??). And way faster than the G4s people used to use.

2- Vegas doesn't use the GPU at all. (Unless you use 3rd party plugins like the newer versions of Magic Bullet. MBE will run faster on a Geforce I think.) So integrated graphics is fine.

You might need a firewire card (or not). It depends on how you get material out of your camera.

3- I'd partition your hard drive... have a ~40GB partition for Windows XP. Download drivers for the RAID beforehand (they should work for XP). Stick Vegas on that. Edit away.

Make the rest a giant partition. If you want to stick other OSes on there... I don't know why you would... but if you did, you can re-partition the second partition and dual boot. (You need to copy data off that partition, but that's fine.)

Vista: Haven't tried it, but haven't heard good things about it.

VMware: Again, haven't tried it. But I doubt it will work for video editing. (But maybe it does... I wouldn't know.) I only suggest windows XP because it is the most likely to work.

Tom Sullivan · January 23rd, 2008, 04:39 PM

Hey thanks for the info and links.
My issue is getting Xp on the poweredge 2950 or I guess I can buy another hard drive for my desktop the current one is pretty full. The reason I was going to use vista was to see if it will work on the poweredge, and it sucks Vista is Microsoft's biggest loser yet.
I was mainly worried about editing in the spring when I get a avchd or dvhd camcorder the pc I have now does dv just not very fast.
So I really don't see it doing hd.

Thanks to all of you and believe it or not I really am not trying to make things complicated I just want to do it right the first time if possible.

Glenn Chan · January 24th, 2008, 01:56 AM

I would expect Windows XP to install on your computer.

The RAID controller may need drivers that aren't on the XP disc, so you may need to put them on a floppy or CD. When the Windows XP installer thing loads, make sure you hit F6 to get the installer to see the drivers.

Tom Sullivan · January 24th, 2008, 02:42 AM

I will give it a try this may sound stupid can I do it with just one drive all I have is a single DVD drive when prompted to put the disk in and would I be able to remove the xp disc without screwing up the install? Thanks though I suppose I could always use a drive from my PC or a flash perhaps?
You honestly just made my day I have no idea why with all the searching I never came across this. I found a million and one ways to do it ass back words, this is seems so much simplier.

Thanks

Glenn Chan · January 24th, 2008, 03:06 AM

I think you can do that... though my memory of installing XP is hazy.

January 22nd, 2008, 03:08 PM	#3
Themis Gyparis Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 91	The Quadro FX 1500 is a video display card, not a video card. What you need is a card with multiple outputs - certainly with a breakout box with DVI, composite, component, firewire inputs and outputs, not only for video but also for audio (inputs and outputs, that is). These cards also have the ability to let you view what you're editing in an external monitor, in realtime, most times assisted by your CPU's power. What's most important, though, is that they allow for realtime compression to a number formats and realtime output to tape. Finally, keep in mind that the hardware of all editing systems is specific, depending on the NLE software, which actually justifies the existence of turnkey systems, specially made by companies whose only job is to build them. It's best to go for such a workstation because that way you'll avoid countless problems in the future. Last edited by Themis Gyparis; January 22nd, 2008 at 03:39 PM.

January 22nd, 2008, 01:50 AM	#1
Tom Sullivan New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Middlefield CT Posts: 19	Any suggestions???? I was curious if anyone had some suggestions for a video card? I was given a server and I just finished what I hope to be the necessary repairs(have not fired it up yet). Anyway I am looking at two dual core 3.0 667mhz (Intel 5050 I believe it was) with 4 gig 677mhz of ram. Three 3.5 hot swap sas 73 gig 15K drives that came with it. I need to get a video card and a audio card and then I believe I should be in good shape. This machine will be dedicated to video and photography. Right now I will be just editing my dv footage I do plan on upgrading to a high def in a few months Probably but not definitely a AVCHD. So I would like to get a card for editing hd. I was thinking maybe. Quadro FX 1500 I would like not to spend anymore than that unless really necessary. If there is some thing cheaper that would handle it that would be great thanks in advance

January 22nd, 2008, 01:17 PM	#2
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Unless you have an immediate plan to be doing 3D animation rendering, there is no need for a card like that FX1500. Video editing does not utilize the 3D card so your CPU is the only thing that helps. The one exception may be Magic Bullet. All you really need to be concerned with for editing is the number and type of connectors available. Most likely you will want two DVI or one DVI and one HDMI connector. Either of those configurations can be found for under $100. If you want a compromise between cost and performance, there are NVidia 8600-series cards with DVI and HDMI for under $200 and I'm sure there is an ATI equivalent. The only advantage the quadro cards have is their OpenGL implementation in the drivers. Cards meant for gamers are usually faster and cost less if you don't need the OpenGL capabilities for something like Maya.

January 22nd, 2008, 10:26 PM	#4
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	So there you have it: two responses, one saying the card is too much and another saying it isn't enough. God, I love this forum. A lot will depend on what type of editing you do and what software you use to do it. Premiere, for example, says it provides "Full Support" for the 1500 (as in fact it does for most current NVidia and ATI cards). If you want to use a second monitor for full screen playback AND you are using Cineform products with Adobe Premiere, this is a good card for you by all accounts. Many people recommend a GeForce 8800GT or GTS as a lower priced alternative, but it cannot do the full screen display on a second monitor; this function has been deliberately disabled to force people to the more expensive Quadro line. And it really isn't that much cheaper, especially for the GTS/G92 flavor. But if the second fullscreen monitor isn't an issue it may be the way to go. Most editing programs are fairly Video Card agnostic, as it's really CPU power that matters -- very few use the card heavily. For a lengthier debate on this topic, check out this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=107204 Most of the debate is between posts #80 and #110. I'm grappling with this very same issue myself, and with all the vociferous pros and cons voiced on this forum, I will likely go with the FX1500 as well, as I will be using that combination of software and want the full-screen overlay capability. As someone put it on the other thread, the 8800GT is unquestionably a faster card, but the lack of overlay is a deal-breaker. Here's another, somewhat outdated but still very useful link to more info and guidance: http://www.videoguys.com/DIY-GPU.html

January 23rd, 2008, 01:18 AM	#5
Tom Sullivan New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Middlefield CT Posts: 19	Thanks for all the replies. Adam the whole reason I picked the card was like you said the full support. As of right now this may not be an issue due too the fact that after starting up the server today I found that the copy of sever 2003 was not on there as I hoped. For now it looks as of right now I will probably be using Ubuntu, Vmware and Xp. I hear it works I just don't know if I am going to end up having more problems then it is worth. I may end up having to to try and finance a workstation, or I guess I could do a motherboard but that will bring on even more things to buy and right now I really do not have the money to put out. I am more confused then ever ahhhhhhhh.... Anyone know prices on boxx or would anyone recommend Boxx???? Well now I guess some more suggestions, maybe for a very scalable very cheap entry level work station.(oxymoron?P:( ) Or the motherboard option? stuck again Thanks again

January 23rd, 2008, 07:13 AM	#6
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Why pay $350 extra for the "full support" which really only adds what seems like a minor inconvenience when you have budget limitations? Also, where does the new motherboard fit in? I could tell by the initial post that budget concerns were important. If this was a purchase part of a big software and expensive camera buy, I would say go for whatever video card you want. If you don't even have an HD camera, you don't need every bell and whistle available. It is perfectly acceptable to edit video from a regular card with two monitor outputs. For under $200 you could have an audio and video card and be up and running. I have no idea why a new motherboard would be necessary. I would also suggest only using one operating system until you get everything running smoothly and you find a need for the second OS. It seems to me that you are searching out problems and expensive solutions. If you want to spend money, get a great set of sticks, a decent HD camera, and good mics. Mics and sticks will last for a long time and not be obsolete in six months.

January 23rd, 2008, 01:40 PM	#7
Tom Sullivan New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Middlefield CT Posts: 19	well the motherboard is because I am having issues with the server I was going to dedicate to video and photography. I have photoshop and Vegas for windows already so I did not want to use ubuntu. I also have a extra copy of vista and xp for the os. I was reading that the raid can be an issue which is the case for me with xp finding the hard drives, I have yet to try vista though. That was the reason for the vmware multiple os and workstation motherboard consideration. Sticks I have from my slr and I definitely need a mic but I was going to wait to see what camera I end up getting . The camera is first priority right now. I would prefer a cheaper card for right now especially during this learning process but I also want something that will work right. As I get better at this then I would like to spend money on a good workstation.

January 23rd, 2008, 03:30 PM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	1- I used to edit DV on a dual processor 500mhz G4. It worked fine. Computers now are way faster and they still do the job. I wouldn't worry too much about your computer right now. Just get your feet wet... your computer should be fine (and should be pretty powerful??). And way faster than the G4s people used to use. 2- Vegas doesn't use the GPU at all. (Unless you use 3rd party plugins like the newer versions of Magic Bullet. MBE will run faster on a Geforce I think.) So integrated graphics is fine. You might need a firewire card (or not). It depends on how you get material out of your camera. 3- I'd partition your hard drive... have a ~40GB partition for Windows XP. Download drivers for the RAID beforehand (they should work for XP). Stick Vegas on that. Edit away. Make the rest a giant partition. If you want to stick other OSes on there... I don't know why you would... but if you did, you can re-partition the second partition and dual boot. (You need to copy data off that partition, but that's fine.) Vista: Haven't tried it, but haven't heard good things about it. VMware: Again, haven't tried it. But I doubt it will work for video editing. (But maybe it does... I wouldn't know.) I only suggest windows XP because it is the most likely to work.

January 23rd, 2008, 04:39 PM	#10
Tom Sullivan New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Middlefield CT Posts: 19	Hey thanks for the info and links. My issue is getting Xp on the poweredge 2950 or I guess I can buy another hard drive for my desktop the current one is pretty full. The reason I was going to use vista was to see if it will work on the poweredge, and it sucks Vista is Microsoft's biggest loser yet. I was mainly worried about editing in the spring when I get a avchd or dvhd camcorder the pc I have now does dv just not very fast. So I really don't see it doing hd. Thanks to all of you and believe it or not I really am not trying to make things complicated I just want to do it right the first time if possible.

January 24th, 2008, 01:56 AM	#11
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I would expect Windows XP to install on your computer. The RAID controller may need drivers that aren't on the XP disc, so you may need to put them on a floppy or CD. When the Windows XP installer thing loads, make sure you hit F6 to get the installer to see the drivers.

January 24th, 2008, 02:42 AM	#12
Tom Sullivan New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Middlefield CT Posts: 19	I will give it a try this may sound stupid can I do it with just one drive all I have is a single DVD drive when prompted to put the disk in and would I be able to remove the xp disc without screwing up the install? Thanks though I suppose I could always use a drive from my PC or a flash perhaps? You honestly just made my day I have no idea why with all the searching I never came across this. I found a million and one ways to do it ass back words, this is seems so much simplier. Thanks

January 24th, 2008, 03:06 AM	#13
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	I think you can do that... though my memory of installing XP is hazy.