Adobe Production Studio VS Final Cut Studio 2

Nathan Quattrini · November 8th, 2007, 02:18 PM

Another FCP question...does it have AB editing? Its what I`m most used to with premiere. I guess any layered program will do, just trying to figure out everything.

Bart Walczak · November 9th, 2007, 05:33 AM

I've been using both FCP and Premiere on a daily basis, and often on FCP I find myself wishing for the elasticity that Premiere has.

Pros of Premiere: Many more options for sound editing (the unlinking part is tiresome indeed if you have to do it so often but it is the only drawback in comparison to track filters and other stuff that is not available on FCP), easier and more flexible keyframing, better preview when using slide tool (4 points instead of FCP's 2), no necessity to "double click" everything, clearer effect window interface. Tighter integration with Photoshop (can import photoshop stills as a clip for example), Illustrator and other Adobe applications, better titling tools. Also you rarely ever need to switch away from the arrow tool to perform any type of editing, which is totally absolutely awesome, and a feature that I started to appreciate after I tried learning Avid (ugh...) and even after I started working in FCP which is almost there, but not yet. Project manager allows you to automatically trim and save your source files (something FCP can't do, either off-line or copy the whole thing). Also Premiere better manages render files - when you move a clip and then move it back, render files are back, try doing it in FCP... Works much much better with Contour Shuttle Pro - no lags, extremely responsive.

These are all little things here and there (with exception of sound editing), much of it is personal preference, certainly, and also I am more of a Windows user, and less fan of Mac OS. But Premiere still remains my editor of choice when I have a choice :)

Cons: Less codec support out of the box, not industry standard unfortunately, exporting to tape could be better (like in FCP), media management for bigger projects is nowhere near AVID, needs fast CPU and lots of RAM, can be unstable otherwise (although even FCP crashed on me the first time I just clicked at a random clip :)).

Frankly, I don't see any reason why Premiere should not compete with FCP in terms of being "industry standard" editor, and why it has a reputation of being "substandard" or "worse" and get snubbed by people from the industry.

Motion is nothing compared to After Effects. AE has many more possibilities. You will definately miss AE after switching to FCS2.

That being said, Adobe pricing and upgrade policies s**k. At least here in Europe. You can't cross-grade, you can't upgrade to International when you have Localised version, it costs 1.5 times more than in the US, and so on.
It is cheaper to fly to the US, buy it there and go back than to buy from Polish distributor.

Mathieu Ghekiere · November 9th, 2007, 07:16 AM

Hi Bart, great informative post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart Walczak

Frankly, I don't see any reason why Premiere should not compete with FCP in terms of being "industry standard" editor, and why it has a reputation of being "substandard" or "worse" and get snubbed by people from the industry.

Although I think it also got to do with the popularity of Mac and FCP in graphical industries, I also heard that Premiere was VERY unstable until version 6.5 and missed a lot of functions. That's why Premiere has a bad name. It's not easy to loose a bad name.
I know a professional editor, and he said: "I don't work with Premiere, it's not an industry standard, it's highly unstable, lacks many functions..."
And I told him: "But have you worked with Premiere Pro? They say it's much better, powerful, stable, and pretty much like FCP"
He said: "No, I haven't..."

Somewhere, that's to be expected: if you have a bad experience with a software program, you won't be keen to revisit it or look at new versions...

Anyhow, very informative post!

Paul Cronin · November 9th, 2007, 08:18 AM

Hi Nathan,

To bad we missed each other on the phone but you must have been busy. You asked me to chime in so here are my thoughts.

I have been with Pinnacle Liquid since Studio 6. Great software and easy to learn since my computer background is 3D modeling design as a Naval Architect that makes all editing software easy to understand. Also it makes all editing software look cheap. But the problem with Liquid once it went to Avid is the service dropped off the map. I have for the last two years paid for an unlimited service contract. Well that was a two year mistake since 75% of the time I could never get anyone on the phone. Once I called Avid in the Massachusetts office and was told we can’t put anyone full time on Liquid service when there are only 45 people paying.

I just went to Liquid Immersion in NC and what a great event I learned tons. But Pinnacle reps were there and the update for the software is coming but they would not say when it would be released. So I felt it was time for a change.

Also I have two big clients with TV shows who I shoot for telling me if I was editing on Final Cut they would give me the editing work for my footage. This to me was a no brainier since one of the jobs would pay for the change.

So I have made the switch with the help of Zotz Digital a DVinfo.net sponsor and purchased a very powerful Mac Pro and RAID along with Adobe Production suite and FCS2.

I just set up the computer yesterday so no input on the editing GUI but after taking two courses at Immersion on After Effects and having a wife who is a writer and graphic artist on a Mac it won’t be that hard.

Will I still use Avid Liquid? Yes I am keeping that workstation set up and it is rendering as I write this.

But from what you wrote me in an email you are loosing work since clients or perspective clients will give you work if you have FCS2. My suggestion is make the move but don’t’ leave Adobe behind. I purchased Adobe Production not for Premier but for AE, Photoshop, Plus more. I think both are important and who knows I could start using Premier and love it.

I hope this helps and feel free to email or call if you have more detailed questions.

Mathieu Ghekiere · November 11th, 2007, 04:35 AM

Paul,

it's nicer this way, if you post on the forum, so everyone can learn from your (informative) posts.

Ervin Farkas · November 13th, 2007, 04:08 PM

I think the original question has been answered exhaustively - also think there will never be a final answer - it's all subjective. We are clearly the winners as both companies compete to bring us better products.

What I would suggest is a little different: forget for a moment platforms and software and concentrate on EDITING. Learn how to edit instead of how to edit on x software; understand WHY things are done and not how are they done, understand the theory behind digital video. Read books, primers, white papers, experiment with simple software (freeware), it will help you tremendously! Understand formats, codecs, compression, bitrate, etc...

Once you master that, it will only take a few days to adapt to any software on any platform. Instead of thinking that xyz developer was stupid, you will understand that he had a good reason for doing it that way, developing software for a specific industry, for specific needs.

And that, my friend, will make you THE master!

Nathan Quattrini · November 13th, 2007, 05:24 PM

I`m not a master by any means, but I`ve been using premiere since 2001. I never asked for a direct answer, I asked for pros and cons if the original question is reread. And its whats been coming in and been helpful.

Brian Brown · November 14th, 2007, 07:01 PM

I don't think it's been mentioned here, but one big plus for using Adobe's Suite is the Dynamic Link function. You're able to import After Effects comps right onto the timeline in PPro, bop back into A.E. and make changes (to a lower-third, for instance), and have the changes show up on the timeline with no intermediate rendering.

My workflow is usually this: ingest the footage in PPro to make my cuts, then import the PPro project into A.E. for effects, keying, masks, titles, etc., then use Dynamic Link to bring the comps back into PPro for audio design and final cuts, then render out via the Media Encoder (to Web, DVD, or Blu-Ray).

A similar function exists in Encore, the DVD authoring application, to bring A.E. motion menus and Photoshop comps into the application.

Their tight integration of all of these disparate applications is what keeps me an Adobe user for going on five years now.

That said, Apple's suite looks mighty "tasty", too. I sure wish they'd port it over to the PC!

Cheers,
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions
www.browncowvideo.com

November 8th, 2007, 02:18 PM	#16
Nathan Quattrini Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warwick, Rhode Island Posts: 740	Another FCP question...does it have AB editing? Its what I`m most used to with premiere. I guess any layered program will do, just trying to figure out everything. __________________ Cinematography Site

November 9th, 2007, 08:18 AM	#19
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Hi Nathan, To bad we missed each other on the phone but you must have been busy. You asked me to chime in so here are my thoughts. I have been with Pinnacle Liquid since Studio 6. Great software and easy to learn since my computer background is 3D modeling design as a Naval Architect that makes all editing software easy to understand. Also it makes all editing software look cheap. But the problem with Liquid once it went to Avid is the service dropped off the map. I have for the last two years paid for an unlimited service contract. Well that was a two year mistake since 75% of the time I could never get anyone on the phone. Once I called Avid in the Massachusetts office and was told we can’t put anyone full time on Liquid service when there are only 45 people paying. I just went to Liquid Immersion in NC and what a great event I learned tons. But Pinnacle reps were there and the update for the software is coming but they would not say when it would be released. So I felt it was time for a change. Also I have two big clients with TV shows who I shoot for telling me if I was editing on Final Cut they would give me the editing work for my footage. This to me was a no brainier since one of the jobs would pay for the change. So I have made the switch with the help of Zotz Digital a DVinfo.net sponsor and purchased a very powerful Mac Pro and RAID along with Adobe Production suite and FCS2. I just set up the computer yesterday so no input on the editing GUI but after taking two courses at Immersion on After Effects and having a wife who is a writer and graphic artist on a Mac it won’t be that hard. Will I still use Avid Liquid? Yes I am keeping that workstation set up and it is rendering as I write this. But from what you wrote me in an email you are loosing work since clients or perspective clients will give you work if you have FCS2. My suggestion is make the move but don’t’ leave Adobe behind. I purchased Adobe Production not for Premier but for AE, Photoshop, Plus more. I think both are important and who knows I could start using Premier and love it. I hope this helps and feel free to email or call if you have more detailed questions. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

November 11th, 2007, 04:35 AM	#20
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Paul, it's nicer this way, if you post on the forum, so everyone can learn from your (informative) posts. __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

November 13th, 2007, 04:08 PM	#21
Ervin Farkas Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta/USA Posts: 2,515	I think the original question has been answered exhaustively - also think there will never be a final answer - it's all subjective. We are clearly the winners as both companies compete to bring us better products. What I would suggest is a little different: forget for a moment platforms and software and concentrate on EDITING. Learn how to edit instead of how to edit on x software; understand WHY things are done and not how are they done, understand the theory behind digital video. Read books, primers, white papers, experiment with simple software (freeware), it will help you tremendously! Understand formats, codecs, compression, bitrate, etc... Once you master that, it will only take a few days to adapt to any software on any platform. Instead of thinking that xyz developer was stupid, you will understand that he had a good reason for doing it that way, developing software for a specific industry, for specific needs. And that, my friend, will make you THE master! __________________ Ervin Farkas www.AtlantaLegalVideo.com

November 13th, 2007, 05:24 PM	#22
Nathan Quattrini Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warwick, Rhode Island Posts: 740	I`m not a master by any means, but I`ve been using premiere since 2001. I never asked for a direct answer, I asked for pros and cons if the original question is reread. And its whats been coming in and been helpful. __________________ Cinematography Site

November 9th, 2007, 05:33 AM	#17
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	I've been using both FCP and Premiere on a daily basis, and often on FCP I find myself wishing for the elasticity that Premiere has. Pros of Premiere: Many more options for sound editing (the unlinking part is tiresome indeed if you have to do it so often but it is the only drawback in comparison to track filters and other stuff that is not available on FCP), easier and more flexible keyframing, better preview when using slide tool (4 points instead of FCP's 2), no necessity to "double click" everything, clearer effect window interface. Tighter integration with Photoshop (can import photoshop stills as a clip for example), Illustrator and other Adobe applications, better titling tools. Also you rarely ever need to switch away from the arrow tool to perform any type of editing, which is totally absolutely awesome, and a feature that I started to appreciate after I tried learning Avid (ugh...) and even after I started working in FCP which is almost there, but not yet. Project manager allows you to automatically trim and save your source files (something FCP can't do, either off-line or copy the whole thing). Also Premiere better manages render files - when you move a clip and then move it back, render files are back, try doing it in FCP... Works much much better with Contour Shuttle Pro - no lags, extremely responsive. These are all little things here and there (with exception of sound editing), much of it is personal preference, certainly, and also I am more of a Windows user, and less fan of Mac OS. But Premiere still remains my editor of choice when I have a choice :) Cons: Less codec support out of the box, not industry standard unfortunately, exporting to tape could be better (like in FCP), media management for bigger projects is nowhere near AVID, needs fast CPU and lots of RAM, can be unstable otherwise (although even FCP crashed on me the first time I just clicked at a random clip :)). Frankly, I don't see any reason why Premiere should not compete with FCP in terms of being "industry standard" editor, and why it has a reputation of being "substandard" or "worse" and get snubbed by people from the industry. Motion is nothing compared to After Effects. AE has many more possibilities. You will definately miss AE after switching to FCS2. That being said, Adobe pricing and upgrade policies s**k. At least here in Europe. You can't cross-grade, you can't upgrade to International when you have Localised version, it costs 1.5 times more than in the US, and so on. It is cheaper to fly to the US, buy it there and go back than to buy from Polish distributor.

November 14th, 2007, 07:01 PM	#23
Brian Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Estes Park, CO USA Posts: 426	I don't think it's been mentioned here, but one big plus for using Adobe's Suite is the Dynamic Link function. You're able to import After Effects comps right onto the timeline in PPro, bop back into A.E. and make changes (to a lower-third, for instance), and have the changes show up on the timeline with no intermediate rendering. My workflow is usually this: ingest the footage in PPro to make my cuts, then import the PPro project into A.E. for effects, keying, masks, titles, etc., then use Dynamic Link to bring the comps back into PPro for audio design and final cuts, then render out via the Media Encoder (to Web, DVD, or Blu-Ray). A similar function exists in Encore, the DVD authoring application, to bring A.E. motion menus and Photoshop comps into the application. Their tight integration of all of these disparate applications is what keeps me an Adobe user for going on five years now. That said, Apple's suite looks mighty "tasty", too. I sure wish they'd port it over to the PC! Cheers, Brian Brown BrownCow Productions www.browncowvideo.com