Vegas 8 or Premiere Pro CS3 ? at DVinfo.net

Deniz Ahmet · October 24th, 2007, 07:48 AM

Hi all....

What's the best option for editing HDV out of these two?

By best , I mean most stable, responsive and effective workflow.

I've never used Vegas btw...

Cliff Etzel · October 24th, 2007, 09:36 AM

Computer resource handling is far superior in Vegas. I have personally experienced plain DV footage on the timeline climb to over 700MB of RAM usage in PPro 1.5 - even worse (over 1.5GB!) as you move up to newer versions - with no special effects, CC etc having been applied - to me that is just sloppy programming. Vegas does more with less - and does it with very efficient resource management.

Plugins are PPro's strength - virtually none are available for Vegas. You can edit audio on the Vegas Timeline, you have to go to Audition or Soundbooth when working with PPro.

I was a vocal Adobe PPro user until I got tired of the out of memory error messages when using 4GB matched dual channel ram on my dual core AMD workstation. My Adobe Video Collection Suite Professional sits on the shelf collecting dust. Vegas Pro 8, Sound Forge 9, Cinescore 1.0, and Acid Pro 4 get used almost daily.

SONY's apps work flawlessly on 64 bit XP Pro - can't say that for Adobe's products.

If you're willing to wrap your head around the SONY Vegas Pro way of doing things, you'll find you are more productive unless you have a specific need that can't be met with SONY's apps.

David Moody · October 24th, 2007, 10:07 AM

I have not used Vegas.

I use Premiere because I want the Cineform plug in and I want Blu-ray authoring with menus.

Yang Wen · October 24th, 2007, 10:17 AM

I have been using Vegas since Version 5.. The last version of Premier Pro I used was much much more resource intensive and sluggish than Vegas..

To put it into perspective, Vegas makes the experience of working with videos like I'm working with a still image. Very very fast and responsive. Imagine playing your timeline and as it's playing, you can move the individual clips around or adjust a clip's speed all while the timeline is playing and your changes are reflected in the preview window in real-time along with the clip's audio.. amazing! Controlling the timeline with my Countor Design Jog/Shuttle is seamless and there is no noticeable delay.

Oh and did I mention that the above comments is in regards to running Vegas 7 on an "ancient" P4 3.2GHZ with 2GB RAM?

Peter Ferling · October 24th, 2007, 11:05 AM

While HDV itself is a processor intensive format, Vegas has the better implementation of proxy/resource usage to keep editing near realtime. Yes, you can bog it down to sloppy stuttering, but that would be many layers and effects ahead of PPro.

However, I'm using Prospect 2k, a $2000 premiere plugin with added investment of $1200 AJA capture card and $1500 studio monitor. I leave HDV to aquisition only.

Adobe just realeased a .1 patch for Premiere, which is supposed to address HDV. Someone else may chime in on that as to whether it's a fix or not, (I don't edit HDV).

Looking at the broader picture, I'm switching to a MacPro/FPC package. I'm not keen on adding issues with Vista upgrades and 64bit into the mix -I'd rather spend a little more on an NLE that was designed for specific hardware.

Pete Bauer · October 24th, 2007, 11:13 AM

Frequently asked question. The usual answer: everyone has their own experiences, preferences, and opinions. The best way to answer such questions is to give the trial versions of the software apps a try and see if you like them. Trials are limited in certain ways, but should be enough to give you an idea if you'll like the app or not.

Chris Barcellos · October 24th, 2007, 11:41 AM

I am running Vegas Pro 8 and Premiere Pro 2 on my system. It took a lot to get me to start looking at Vegas. lt had a different feel, and workflow, it seemed to me. In some ways, it seemed to simplified. I kept hearing raves about it, so I decided to force myself into using it for a couple of projects in June this year. Like anything, as I began to learn the program, I began to appreciated it more. Point is, when I start to fire up for a project now, I go to Vegas, even though I have Premiere there too... I have coupled it with NeoHDV from Cineform to give me an even better editing capability in HDV, but my experience with the Vegas 8 native HDV editing has been great too !

I'm afraid I paid for my last upgrade in Adobe Premiere,,,,,

Deniz Ahmet · October 25th, 2007, 09:50 AM

As I understand from reading up Cineform is in part already built into Vegas. What advantage is there is using it with Vegas 8?

Also, is Cineform aspect HD with premiere a better experience overall?

Thank you

Peter Ferling · October 25th, 2007, 10:30 AM

http://www.cineform.com/technology/H...ysis051011.htm

Kevin Janisch · October 26th, 2007, 11:09 AM

Currently evaluating Vegas 8a after being a Premiere user since version 4. Came across this article which I thought was excellent reading and what was really what got me to download the Vegas trial:

http://blogs.digitalmediaonlineinc.c...ntry/200704131

Rob Gregory-Browne · October 30th, 2007, 12:11 PM

I'm using Vegas 8 to edit native HDV files. It works like a charm. After several hours it can tend to bog down, but I find this true for other apps as well.

Mark Stavar · November 1st, 2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Janisch

Currently evaluating Vegas 8a after being a Premiere user since version 4. Came across this article which I thought was excellent reading and what was really what got me to download the Vegas trial:

http://blogs.digitalmediaonlineinc.c...ntry/200704131

I found it interesting that the graphic displayed in this blog post includes a screenshot of "Cinelerra", and open-source Linux NLE http://heroinewarrior.com.

I have tried Cinelerra a number of times. It too had its roots in sound recording/mixing. unfortuantely it is just not up to scratch in many ways, and I found I could just never get that sense of confidence one needs when one is about to launch into a big project. Pity, because Linux needs a good NLE product. If only Vegas ran on Linux...

William Boehm · November 2nd, 2007, 12:06 PM

I have a large number of wildlife tapes taken over the summer, and need to decide on a pc editing solution. i appreciate this forum. Vegas 8 seems to be more 'user friendly and intuitive' but do you need an intermediate codec like cineform 'avid' or can Vegas be used without one. bill

Bill Mecca · November 2nd, 2007, 05:18 PM

Mark,

I remember reading recently about someone successfully using Vegas on a Linux box under a windows emulator, If I can find that info I will post it. Not a pure Linux, but whatever works eh? ;-)

Mark Gervasoni · November 2nd, 2007, 06:01 PM

I've used Vegas since starting with Platinum a couple of years ago and am very happy with it. I upgraded to 7 and now 8 Pro and find it by far the best yet. I also use Boris Red 4.1 for titling, transitions, and effects; however most things can be done well in Vegas. Once you figure out Boris FX though, there is no going back. It is a great compositing program both in and out of Vegas.

I capture and edit HDV from my Sony HVR A1U with no problems at all (very stable) and I also edit my Panasonic AG-HVX 200 footage using the Raylight plugin from DVFilm (either straight from the MXF file or converted to a Raylight AVI - that makes it more portable to use in other programs).

Investigate the plugins from VASST as well. There is a wide range of products and training on their site. You can also find lots of how to videos on You Tube as well.

Vegas is often discounted as not a professional program. My opinion is simple, if you work that hard at this and sell enough jobs and edit them you will discover the day that you need an upgrade to Premiere, AVID or whatever is the hot thing at the moment. In the meantime, Vegas simply works well and gets the job done. Plus it has great audio tools (and incorporation with their other programs - I use Cinescore, Sound Forge, Acid Studio, and XMC and they all work effortlessly with Vegas).

I have some samples on my web site at www.newmediadevcorp.com that were all done on Vegas. I'm still no master, but I'm learning all the time and adding to my bag of tricks. I've been working on both a laptop (HP9060 with 2 gigs ram) and a cheap Compaq Desktop (1 gig) that is several years old. They both run Vegas well. Now that I am also doing more animation work, I just ordered the parts to build my first dedicated workstation (Intel Quad Core, 4 megs ram, NVidia Quadro FX1500 board). My point goes back to the previous paragraph - as you grow, you add to your capabilities as an editor and to run your business. I think if you start with too much you get overwhelmed and never really learn what you have (I just started with Maya 2008 and will find out if I've overstepped my mental abilities, for example).

As far as Premiere goes, I cuss everytime I open an Adobe product (yes, I am kidding). It seems like the Adobe products I use are all former something else... Dreamweaver, Flash 8 Pro, Serious Magic Ultra II, DV Rack HD, etc...). Adobe has amassed an incredible arsenal of products and sort of supports them. I just can't seem to bring myself to CS3 and dedicate myself to their workflow. I've got to have some independence somewhere! Fight the power! Get Vegas!

October 24th, 2007, 07:48 AM	#1
Deniz Ahmet Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LONDON Posts: 178	Vegas 8 or Premiere Pro CS3 ? Hi all.... What's the best option for editing HDV out of these two? By best , I mean most stable, responsive and effective workflow. I've never used Vegas btw...

October 24th, 2007, 09:36 AM	#2
Cliff Etzel Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 325	Computer resource handling is far superior in Vegas. I have personally experienced plain DV footage on the timeline climb to over 700MB of RAM usage in PPro 1.5 - even worse (over 1.5GB!) as you move up to newer versions - with no special effects, CC etc having been applied - to me that is just sloppy programming. Vegas does more with less - and does it with very efficient resource management. Plugins are PPro's strength - virtually none are available for Vegas. You can edit audio on the Vegas Timeline, you have to go to Audition or Soundbooth when working with PPro. I was a vocal Adobe PPro user until I got tired of the out of memory error messages when using 4GB matched dual channel ram on my dual core AMD workstation. My Adobe Video Collection Suite Professional sits on the shelf collecting dust. Vegas Pro 8, Sound Forge 9, Cinescore 1.0, and Acid Pro 4 get used almost daily. SONY's apps work flawlessly on 64 bit XP Pro - can't say that for Adobe's products. If you're willing to wrap your head around the SONY Vegas Pro way of doing things, you'll find you are more productive unless you have a specific need that can't be met with SONY's apps. __________________ Cliff Etzel - Photographer Website \| Blog

October 24th, 2007, 11:05 AM	#5
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	While HDV itself is a processor intensive format, Vegas has the better implementation of proxy/resource usage to keep editing near realtime. Yes, you can bog it down to sloppy stuttering, but that would be many layers and effects ahead of PPro. However, I'm using Prospect 2k, a $2000 premiere plugin with added investment of $1200 AJA capture card and $1500 studio monitor. I leave HDV to aquisition only. Adobe just realeased a .1 patch for Premiere, which is supposed to address HDV. Someone else may chime in on that as to whether it's a fix or not, (I don't edit HDV). Looking at the broader picture, I'm switching to a MacPro/FPC package. I'm not keen on adding issues with Vista upgrades and 64bit into the mix -I'd rather spend a little more on an NLE that was designed for specific hardware. __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

October 24th, 2007, 11:13 AM	#6
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Frequently asked question. The usual answer: everyone has their own experiences, preferences, and opinions. The best way to answer such questions is to give the trial versions of the software apps a try and see if you like them. Trials are limited in certain ways, but should be enough to give you an idea if you'll like the app or not. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

October 24th, 2007, 11:41 AM	#7
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I am running Vegas Pro 8 and Premiere Pro 2 on my system. It took a lot to get me to start looking at Vegas. lt had a different feel, and workflow, it seemed to me. In some ways, it seemed to simplified. I kept hearing raves about it, so I decided to force myself into using it for a couple of projects in June this year. Like anything, as I began to learn the program, I began to appreciated it more. Point is, when I start to fire up for a project now, I go to Vegas, even though I have Premiere there too... I have coupled it with NeoHDV from Cineform to give me an even better editing capability in HDV, but my experience with the Vegas 8 native HDV editing has been great too ! I'm afraid I paid for my last upgrade in Adobe Premiere,,,,, __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

October 24th, 2007, 10:07 AM	#3
David Moody Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 86	I have not used Vegas. I use Premiere because I want the Cineform plug in and I want Blu-ray authoring with menus.

October 24th, 2007, 10:17 AM	#4
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	I have been using Vegas since Version 5.. The last version of Premier Pro I used was much much more resource intensive and sluggish than Vegas.. To put it into perspective, Vegas makes the experience of working with videos like I'm working with a still image. Very very fast and responsive. Imagine playing your timeline and as it's playing, you can move the individual clips around or adjust a clip's speed all while the timeline is playing and your changes are reflected in the preview window in real-time along with the clip's audio.. amazing! Controlling the timeline with my Countor Design Jog/Shuttle is seamless and there is no noticeable delay. Oh and did I mention that the above comments is in regards to running Vegas 7 on an "ancient" P4 3.2GHZ with 2GB RAM?

October 25th, 2007, 09:50 AM	#8
Deniz Ahmet Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LONDON Posts: 178	CINEFORM - is it needed? As I understand from reading up Cineform is in part already built into Vegas. What advantage is there is using it with Vegas 8? Also, is Cineform aspect HD with premiere a better experience overall? Thank you

October 25th, 2007, 10:30 AM	#9
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	http://www.cineform.com/technology/H...ysis051011.htm __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

October 26th, 2007, 11:09 AM	#10
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	Currently evaluating Vegas 8a after being a Premiere user since version 4. Came across this article which I thought was excellent reading and what was really what got me to download the Vegas trial: http://blogs.digitalmediaonlineinc.c...ntry/200704131

October 30th, 2007, 12:11 PM	#11
Rob Gregory-Browne Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 107	I'm using Vegas 8 to edit native HDV files. It works like a charm. After several hours it can tend to bog down, but I find this true for other apps as well.

November 2nd, 2007, 12:06 PM	#13
William Boehm Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bothell, Washington Posts: 195	need for an intermediate codec with vegas 8? I have a large number of wildlife tapes taken over the summer, and need to decide on a pc editing solution. i appreciate this forum. Vegas 8 seems to be more 'user friendly and intuitive' but do you need an intermediate codec like cineform 'avid' or can Vegas be used without one. bill

November 2nd, 2007, 05:18 PM	#14
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	Mark, I remember reading recently about someone successfully using Vegas on a Linux box under a windows emulator, If I can find that info I will post it. Not a pure Linux, but whatever works eh? ;-) __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

November 2nd, 2007, 06:01 PM	#15
Mark Gervasoni New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Midlothian, VA Posts: 18	Vegas 8 user and plug ins I've used Vegas since starting with Platinum a couple of years ago and am very happy with it. I upgraded to 7 and now 8 Pro and find it by far the best yet. I also use Boris Red 4.1 for titling, transitions, and effects; however most things can be done well in Vegas. Once you figure out Boris FX though, there is no going back. It is a great compositing program both in and out of Vegas. I capture and edit HDV from my Sony HVR A1U with no problems at all (very stable) and I also edit my Panasonic AG-HVX 200 footage using the Raylight plugin from DVFilm (either straight from the MXF file or converted to a Raylight AVI - that makes it more portable to use in other programs). Investigate the plugins from VASST as well. There is a wide range of products and training on their site. You can also find lots of how to videos on You Tube as well. Vegas is often discounted as not a professional program. My opinion is simple, if you work that hard at this and sell enough jobs and edit them you will discover the day that you need an upgrade to Premiere, AVID or whatever is the hot thing at the moment. In the meantime, Vegas simply works well and gets the job done. Plus it has great audio tools (and incorporation with their other programs - I use Cinescore, Sound Forge, Acid Studio, and XMC and they all work effortlessly with Vegas). I have some samples on my web site at www.newmediadevcorp.com that were all done on Vegas. I'm still no master, but I'm learning all the time and adding to my bag of tricks. I've been working on both a laptop (HP9060 with 2 gigs ram) and a cheap Compaq Desktop (1 gig) that is several years old. They both run Vegas well. Now that I am also doing more animation work, I just ordered the parts to build my first dedicated workstation (Intel Quad Core, 4 megs ram, NVidia Quadro FX1500 board). My point goes back to the previous paragraph - as you grow, you add to your capabilities as an editor and to run your business. I think if you start with too much you get overwhelmed and never really learn what you have (I just started with Maya 2008 and will find out if I've overstepped my mental abilities, for example). As far as Premiere goes, I cuss everytime I open an Adobe product (yes, I am kidding). It seems like the Adobe products I use are all former something else... Dreamweaver, Flash 8 Pro, Serious Magic Ultra II, DV Rack HD, etc...). Adobe has amassed an incredible arsenal of products and sort of supports them. I just can't seem to bring myself to CS3 and dedicate myself to their workflow. I've got to have some independence somewhere! Fight the power! Get Vegas!