Helping Hands from 2006

Tip McPartland · May 26th, 2006, 11:13 AM

This project is obviously straight from the heart (although dealing with, well, other areas of the anatomy). It will help the general public to learn about potentially lifesaving issues.

Those who are contemplating devoting time to the George Romero feature film, please consider giving this important and public spirited project your time and energy instead.

Charlie... is heliobacter pylori a causal factor in your illness as it is in other ulcers? If not, perhaps there is another organism that does play a role, albeit as yet undiscovered as was h. pylori's role in ulcers for so many years. Consider drinking colloidal silver to kill a broad spectrum of organisms in the intestines, you may get lucky.

Tip McPartland · May 26th, 2006, 11:23 AM

This poster is doing his best to confer some human dignity on the people he's enlisting. Deferred pay is a very reasonable approach to bootstraps filmmaking, and some money up front is even better.

Eric Elliott · May 26th, 2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tip McPartland

But this kind of cooperation among friends cannot be confused with trading on the hopes and dreams of strangers to persuade them to WORK for free.

Are you kidding? This happens all the time! Almost every damn indie I've ever worked on, most of the cast and crew were doing it for the experience or exposure and, at the outside, some faint hope of profits from the backend!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tip McPartland

And if you doubt that filmmaking is work, and among the hardest work there is at times, and certainly with some of the longest hours, then you haven't been on set very much.

I just wrapped principal photography on a feature where I was DP, Art Director, Key Grip, etc, etc, etc, so don't tell me how much work goes into filming. And guess what? I didn't get paid. Yes I "own a piece of the picture" but that and $4.50 will get me a latte at Starbucks.

What it comes down to is love. If I was into indie /guerilla filming only for the money, I'd be an idiot. I'd be better off working as a cog-wheel in Hollywood.

Are there plenty of con-artists out there who will try and cheat you out of a lot of hard work? Sure. But they usually promise the moon. This guy is totally up-front about what he's offering: not much.

Take it or leave it.

But, bitch endlessly about it? Dude!

James Emory · May 26th, 2006, 01:15 PM

Tip, I totally agree with you. I don't think we'll be hearing from this person again because it was his first post and more than likely his only post. I started a dedicated forum about these ridiculous job offers a while back and it has grown exponentially over the last couple of years. Unfortunately, it shows how prevalent these types of posts and projects are but some are so ridiculous you just have to laugh. I think the worst of these types of posts are when these people absolutely demand so much for so little or nothing. I think we have all worked on something for experience but that must end at some point. These types of reasons have been exploited and overused by the shadier types and now you don't know who to trust. It's not just can you help, it's you must have this and must have that, provide all equipment and by the way, I can't pay you. That's what bothers me the most. I think these types of people are truly mentally ill to call on strangers and actually expect all of this for no compensation. When you can't pay, you take what you can get!!

There are red flags with this post and the point about the Chicago crew. Somebody is getting paid. What makes this even worse is that they want you to use your own gear for free, something that is costing you money!! On other projects, I have seen ridiculous amounts of "hidden" money magically appear and spent for last minute needs to make something happen. But, they claimed they couldn't even pay P.A.'s $100 day. This industry is full of liars and manipulators and you just have to learn how to spot them before getting taken. This is not a friend in high school wanting help to shoot a project for fun. This is a project with high profile people listed and should be funded as such. What makes it even worse is that key positions such as a shooter are being solicited for no pay. That is rarely if ever done for a high profile project. For those that don't think this is a big deal, they probably have other full time jobs and/or still live at home so paying bills is not necessarilly a priority. I would really like to know how many people have gotten hired on a huge project with great pay based on a screen credit from an independent project that nobody has ever heard of! Even though the terms are seemingly up front, this is still a bad deal for whoever provides their gear and/or works for free.

Ridiculous Job Offers & Demands
www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=33082

Lon Breedlove · May 26th, 2006, 02:36 PM

We'll be shootinga 'long' short film starting in mid June in the Austin metro area. Anyone and everyone who is interested in helping out on ANY level should contact me at lonbreedlove@yahoo.com. The most important people I need, however, are people who could aid in a little pre-production, organizational work. Thanks for your interest,

Lon

Greg Boston · May 26th, 2006, 02:49 PM

Ironically James, that's the first place I thought of moving the initial post in this thread to. I agree with the idea of asking for help on a project for low or no compensation but only if you are willing to take people with low or no experience to match.

If I state that someone 'must have' this or 'must have' that, then I 'must have' some money to pay them.

-gb-

K. Forman · May 26th, 2006, 02:56 PM

There are plenty of actors/crew that have worked on low/no budget indie films, but that was based on the story alone. Big names, not just your average craigslist actors.

Josh Bass · May 26th, 2006, 04:02 PM

I'd just like to point out that the whole "work free experience/exposure" thing is not limited to just cinema/video production--it seems to be present in all art/art-related fields ("paint my mural for free--everyone'll see it on the side of my building and you'll be famous!" "design my website for free! Everyone'll see it and you'll get tons of free work!" "design my company's logo for free, and I'll refer you to people!" Something about art, I guess.

K. Forman · May 26th, 2006, 04:23 PM

Hence the term, "starving artist".

Tip McPartland · May 26th, 2006, 04:29 PM

Please, Eric, no "b" word, children may read these posts.

Steve House · May 26th, 2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole McDonald

As a hobbyist, I'd jump at this if I were available, which alas I am not! Not all shooters are in it as a career. I have a garden, but I don't get paid to till it.

But you'd probably expect to be paid to till someone else's garden, wouldn't you? Especially if they entered it in the anuual garden show and won a cash prize based in part on the quality of your work.

Cole McDonald · May 26th, 2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

But you'd probably expect to be paid to till someone else's garden, wouldn't you? Especially if they entered it in the anuual garden show and won a cash prize based in part on the quality of your work.

Not if I offered to do it for free if he told his neighbors about what a wonderful job I did :)

James Emory · May 26th, 2006, 05:14 PM

Cole, I think the point that is being missed here is that just how many times could you do something for free with referrals as the only compensation. Where does it end? If everything is a trade then how the hell does anyone make a living? Free or deferred help should be confined to a group of friends and not solicited to the public. The unfortunate news is that there is a steady stream of young, naive people who will work for free for the truly demanding cheap asses until they finally figure it out and then another will take their place. The only thing that is a constant is that most of this free help is unskilled and the producer will usually get what they pay for. They will have to redo things and take time to explain what they need because of the lack of experience of the free help.

Charlie Vankirk · May 26th, 2006, 10:52 PM

Thanks TIP for the support!!

It is really important to me that I try as best I can to raise awareness. In our modern day and age of highly processed foods alot of people (especially in th USA) are basically killing themselves with these highly toxic foods and chemicals.
Cancer and other diseases have become so common that it is almost expected that one will get a disease and die from it. That is NOT supposed to happen and we are supposed to thrive.

I need to get the message out that Colon Cancer & UC ARE PREVENTABLE!

H.Pylori is actually common in UC patients. I have it!

Thanks again for your support......I can use alot more from people!!

Take Care!

Samuel Small · May 27th, 2006, 12:15 AM

DBC Production is looking for a cameraperson to shoot our upcoming comedy showcases in NYC. The dates are July 15 & August 5, 2006. The showtimes is from 7:00pm-11:00pm. All interested parties and those looking for more information can contact us at info@diamondbackbroadcasting.com. Thank you for your time.

May 26th, 2006, 11:13 AM	#421
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	If you can work free, work for this guy... This project is obviously straight from the heart (although dealing with, well, other areas of the anatomy). It will help the general public to learn about potentially lifesaving issues. Those who are contemplating devoting time to the George Romero feature film, please consider giving this important and public spirited project your time and energy instead. Charlie... is heliobacter pylori a causal factor in your illness as it is in other ulcers? If not, perhaps there is another organism that does play a role, albeit as yet undiscovered as was h. pylori's role in ulcers for so many years. Consider drinking colloidal silver to kill a broad spectrum of organisms in the intestines, you may get lucky.

May 26th, 2006, 11:23 AM	#422
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Low and deferred pay offer shows class... This poster is doing his best to confer some human dignity on the people he's enlisting. Deferred pay is a very reasonable approach to bootstraps filmmaking, and some money up front is even better.

May 26th, 2006, 02:36 PM	#425
Lon Breedlove Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 40	Austin, TX Crew Needed We'll be shootinga 'long' short film starting in mid June in the Austin metro area. Anyone and everyone who is interested in helping out on ANY level should contact me at lonbreedlove@yahoo.com. The most important people I need, however, are people who could aid in a little pre-production, organizational work. Thanks for your interest, Lon

May 26th, 2006, 02:56 PM	#427
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	There are plenty of actors/crew that have worked on low/no budget indie films, but that was based on the story alone. Big names, not just your average craigslist actors. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 26th, 2006, 04:02 PM	#428
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	I'd just like to point out that the whole "work free experience/exposure" thing is not limited to just cinema/video production--it seems to be present in all art/art-related fields ("paint my mural for free--everyone'll see it on the side of my building and you'll be famous!" "design my website for free! Everyone'll see it and you'll get tons of free work!" "design my company's logo for free, and I'll refer you to people!" Something about art, I guess. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 26th, 2006, 01:15 PM	#424
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Tip, I totally agree with you. I don't think we'll be hearing from this person again because it was his first post and more than likely his only post. I started a dedicated forum about these ridiculous job offers a while back and it has grown exponentially over the last couple of years. Unfortunately, it shows how prevalent these types of posts and projects are but some are so ridiculous you just have to laugh. I think the worst of these types of posts are when these people absolutely demand so much for so little or nothing. I think we have all worked on something for experience but that must end at some point. These types of reasons have been exploited and overused by the shadier types and now you don't know who to trust. It's not just can you help, it's you must have this and must have that, provide all equipment and by the way, I can't pay you. That's what bothers me the most. I think these types of people are truly mentally ill to call on strangers and actually expect all of this for no compensation. When you can't pay, you take what you can get!! There are red flags with this post and the point about the Chicago crew. Somebody is getting paid. What makes this even worse is that they want you to use your own gear for free, something that is costing you money!! On other projects, I have seen ridiculous amounts of "hidden" money magically appear and spent for last minute needs to make something happen. But, they claimed they couldn't even pay P.A.'s $100 day. This industry is full of liars and manipulators and you just have to learn how to spot them before getting taken. This is not a friend in high school wanting help to shoot a project for fun. This is a project with high profile people listed and should be funded as such. What makes it even worse is that key positions such as a shooter are being solicited for no pay. That is rarely if ever done for a high profile project. For those that don't think this is a big deal, they probably have other full time jobs and/or still live at home so paying bills is not necessarilly a priority. I would really like to know how many people have gotten hired on a huge project with great pay based on a screen credit from an independent project that nobody has ever heard of! Even though the terms are seemingly up front, this is still a bad deal for whoever provides their gear and/or works for free. Ridiculous Job Offers & Demands www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=33082

May 26th, 2006, 02:49 PM	#426
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Ironically James, that's the first place I thought of moving the initial post in this thread to. I agree with the idea of asking for help on a project for low or no compensation but only if you are willing to take people with low or no experience to match. If I state that someone 'must have' this or 'must have' that, then I 'must have' some money to pay them. -gb-

May 26th, 2006, 04:23 PM	#429
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Hence the term, "starving artist". __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 26th, 2006, 04:29 PM	#430
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Clean my garage... _iotch Please, Eric, no "b" word, children may read these posts.

May 26th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#433
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Cole, I think the point that is being missed here is that just how many times could you do something for free with referrals as the only compensation. Where does it end? If everything is a trade then how the hell does anyone make a living? Free or deferred help should be confined to a group of friends and not solicited to the public. The unfortunate news is that there is a steady stream of young, naive people who will work for free for the truly demanding cheap asses until they finally figure it out and then another will take their place. The only thing that is a constant is that most of this free help is unskilled and the producer will usually get what they pay for. They will have to redo things and take time to explain what they need because of the lack of experience of the free help. Last edited by James Emory; May 26th, 2006 at 05:58 PM.

May 26th, 2006, 10:52 PM	#434
Charlie Vankirk Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Las Vegas,NV Posts: 41	Thanks TIP for the support!! It is really important to me that I try as best I can to raise awareness. In our modern day and age of highly processed foods alot of people (especially in th USA) are basically killing themselves with these highly toxic foods and chemicals. Cancer and other diseases have become so common that it is almost expected that one will get a disease and die from it. That is NOT supposed to happen and we are supposed to thrive. I need to get the message out that Colon Cancer & UC ARE PREVENTABLE! H.Pylori is actually common in UC patients. I have it! Thanks again for your support......I can use alot more from people!! Take Care!

May 27th, 2006, 12:15 AM	#435
Samuel Small New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 6	Camera Operator Needed for Comedy Shoot in NYC DBC Production is looking for a cameraperson to shoot our upcoming comedy showcases in NYC. The dates are July 15 & August 5, 2006. The showtimes is from 7:00pm-11:00pm. All interested parties and those looking for more information can contact us at info@diamondbackbroadcasting.com. Thank you for your time. __________________ Samuel A. Small, Sr.