Warbirds Over Wanaka - Video/ Sound etc

Chris Soucy · December 15th, 2007, 12:17 AM

to which, hopefully, someone can give me a pretty good answer.

As you may be able to imagine, the South Island of NZ is not exactly awash with "top end" HD video gear, CineAlta et al.

I have no idea what, exactly, this production company is shooting with, even tho' I'm told it's "HD".

The question is this:

How does HDV stack up against the "top end" HD stuff and would/ does intercutting give rise to "issues" that would make it's use (HDV) in this endeavour a non starter?

I've never seen anything better than HDV, so am not in a position to make any judgement whatsoever. The "snob" factor aside (mines worth 20 times yours, so is 20 times better) how noticeable is the difference, really?

I need some serious ammo if I'm going to go head to head with these guys and do a deal, but don't want to get shot down in flames in the first dog fight over said "snob value".

If there is, on the other hand, a serious issue with the different quality, I'd rather not look a complete idiot right from the off.

All comments, opinion and facts most definately welcome.

CS

John McCully · December 15th, 2007, 12:32 AM

Hello Chris

A friend gave me a DVD titled Shadowland produced by Murihiku Films and I understand this was shot with a F950 using a company called Aeroptics based in Queenstown. Not my thing but on a big screen I imagine it might be quite cool. My guess is that's your competition. I'll bet they don't come cheap!

Hope that helps.

Cheers

John

Chris Soucy · December 15th, 2007, 01:52 AM

bugger, I thought I'd answered this and dived back in to find my system had lost that as well, seems I have a fairly serious issue with something.

Thanks for that piece of info, shall check it out and see what comes of it.

CS

PS. That EX 1 you were asking me about the other day? Seems the shipment that's just landed in Oz has some pretty serious issues with the lens. Glad I wasn't the first on that particular bandwagon.

John McCully · December 15th, 2007, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

PS. That EX 1 you were asking me about the other day? Seems the shipment that's just landed in Oz has some pretty serious issues with the lens. Glad I wasn't the first on that particular bandwagon.

Me too. I ordered one on Thursday. Seems they are way behind on delivery here. Seems none have yet arrived. I imagine the earliest I shall see the goods is later January.

And yes, given the gear that Aeroptics have and their track record in the area I would say you might be up against serious competition there. How would you like to shoot an air show out of a fast fully loaded helicopter piloted by a top HeliJock out of the fast and wild Queenstown. If Aeroptics are not the competition give them a call and see if they would like to work with you on a profit sharing basis.

Bob Hart · December 15th, 2007, 06:47 AM

Chris.

Sounds like you are outgunned. However, as a personal preference, I think I can aquire and track easier with a rear finder style cam than the side-finder style which your competitors will be using. However it is all about practice too. They are probably quite good with the gear they are using by now.

Another little useful trick you can do after aquiring, for the PD150 or Z1, if you cannot get switched to the LCD in time, is to hold the rear finder cup to your eye and allow it to tilt upward as you elevate the camera.

When the PD150 finder gets worn and sloppy, a decent clamp on the rubber with the eyebrow and cheekbone and it follows.

If these guys are using sidefinders only, not rear mounted OB monitors on the back and they do the job properly, they are going to be stiff and sore by day's end.

You get into all sorts of contortions trying to stay eyed up to the finder and walking around the tripod without pulling the whole thing over or kicking a leg and bumping the shot. The side finders also elevate but operating side-on to the tripod is still a bit tricky.

Dennis Woods Brevis35 flip model, with the CF screen removed enitrely could be a contender for convenient aerial image work with a long lens for your camera. He actually has a CF screen tailor made for long lenses so that might be viable in any event.

One last - if you are inclined towards being afflicted by allergy, you may be up against the dust from broken downtrodden grass after end of Day 1. 20 minutes after taking Polaramines, I am pretty much useless on the close follows and have to sit off a bit. Telfast or Zirtex doesn't slow you down as much. This dust and stuff also get on and in your camera. Cover up as much as you can.

Steve Oakley · January 16th, 2008, 10:20 PM

I sent you an email, but one word of advice - forget the H4. its NOT time stable and will drift. get a laptop and a multi input analog FW audio interface. you should also look at several scanners each covering one of the frequencies in use. one won't work very well. could also look for a Deva recorder.

Chris Soucy · January 16th, 2008, 11:30 PM

Well, sad to relate, this particular gig is a bust.

I've been shut out well and truly and the winners don't even want to know squat (this seems to be the biggest secret in NZ as to whom the winners actually are - absolutely no one in the know will say squat, not sure what the heck is going on there).

My heartfelt thanks to all of you who responded, your support was indeed terrific and I feel sure that had I been a bit quicker on my feet with this it might just have been a goer (tho', in hindsight, swinging this on the basis of "The Dirty Dozen meets The Magnificant Seven" could have been a bit of a hard sell!).

My shattered ego and I will limp off into the gathering gloom and plan our revenge. I'm going up anyway with all the gear and I'll be damned if those guys get all the best shots (and by whatsit will it cost 'em if I get one they don't!). Said only half in jest, if I did, of course they could have it for a, er, small consideration.

Again, my thanks to you all, guys and guyesses. Hopefully next time I'll pull it off.

CS

Bob Hart · January 17th, 2008, 01:59 AM

For what its worth and it may be a little too late now to arrange, you might try to get a media accreditation to get access to some closed areas.

The other player's exclusivity deal may of course ban you out of any such areas but it may be worth a try.

If you can approach your local public access channel, assuming you have one in NZ, ask them to annoint you as their official videographer, you might get half a chance if their piece of paper is impressive.

The footage you shoot this time round would not be an earner unless it was absolutely outstanding and unique in which case everyone including the offical player may want a piece of your action.

Unfortunately, such footage is often associated with disaster and I have some severe misgivings about profiting from such.

My personal policy with aviators is to state before I shoot any footage at an event, that if I observe the development of any "playing up for the camera" or inappropriate risk taking, I will turn the camera around off the shot and walk away from it and have done so. You may miss the money shot but your integrity will remain intact.

Good luck and enjoy.

Sam Doyle · January 23rd, 2008, 06:02 PM

Hey dont worry about it Chris,

While Wanaka is a nice venue and yes they have some nice aircraft, Omaka and even Wings over Wairarapa and growing and are just as much fun especially with the Peter Jackson Collection of aircraft participating....

cheers
Sam

Chris Soucy · March 29th, 2008, 02:48 AM

who responded so enthusiastically, wholeheartedly and considerately to this thread, this is my bottom line on the actual event.

Lessons learnt, ego given distinct reality check, hmm, maybe air shows ain't my thing.

This is the summary:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=117949

CS

December 15th, 2007, 12:17 AM	#31
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Which raises an interesting question..... to which, hopefully, someone can give me a pretty good answer. As you may be able to imagine, the South Island of NZ is not exactly awash with "top end" HD video gear, CineAlta et al. I have no idea what, exactly, this production company is shooting with, even tho' I'm told it's "HD". The question is this: How does HDV stack up against the "top end" HD stuff and would/ does intercutting give rise to "issues" that would make it's use (HDV) in this endeavour a non starter? I've never seen anything better than HDV, so am not in a position to make any judgement whatsoever. The "snob" factor aside (mines worth 20 times yours, so is 20 times better) how noticeable is the difference, really? I need some serious ammo if I'm going to go head to head with these guys and do a deal, but don't want to get shot down in flames in the first dog fight over said "snob value". If there is, on the other hand, a serious issue with the different quality, I'd rather not look a complete idiot right from the off. All comments, opinion and facts most definately welcome. CS

December 15th, 2007, 12:32 AM	#32
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	A Queenstown connection Hello Chris A friend gave me a DVD titled Shadowland produced by Murihiku Films and I understand this was shot with a F950 using a company called Aeroptics based in Queenstown. Not my thing but on a big screen I imagine it might be quite cool. My guess is that's your competition. I'll bet they don't come cheap! Hope that helps. Cheers John

December 15th, 2007, 01:52 AM	#33
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Hi John............... bugger, I thought I'd answered this and dived back in to find my system had lost that as well, seems I have a fairly serious issue with something. Thanks for that piece of info, shall check it out and see what comes of it. CS PS. That EX 1 you were asking me about the other day? Seems the shipment that's just landed in Oz has some pretty serious issues with the lens. Glad I wasn't the first on that particular bandwagon.

December 15th, 2007, 06:47 AM	#35
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Chris. Sounds like you are outgunned. However, as a personal preference, I think I can aquire and track easier with a rear finder style cam than the side-finder style which your competitors will be using. However it is all about practice too. They are probably quite good with the gear they are using by now. Another little useful trick you can do after aquiring, for the PD150 or Z1, if you cannot get switched to the LCD in time, is to hold the rear finder cup to your eye and allow it to tilt upward as you elevate the camera. When the PD150 finder gets worn and sloppy, a decent clamp on the rubber with the eyebrow and cheekbone and it follows. If these guys are using sidefinders only, not rear mounted OB monitors on the back and they do the job properly, they are going to be stiff and sore by day's end. You get into all sorts of contortions trying to stay eyed up to the finder and walking around the tripod without pulling the whole thing over or kicking a leg and bumping the shot. The side finders also elevate but operating side-on to the tripod is still a bit tricky. Dennis Woods Brevis35 flip model, with the CF screen removed enitrely could be a contender for convenient aerial image work with a long lens for your camera. He actually has a CF screen tailor made for long lenses so that might be viable in any event. One last - if you are inclined towards being afflicted by allergy, you may be up against the dust from broken downtrodden grass after end of Day 1. 20 minutes after taking Polaramines, I am pretty much useless on the close follows and have to sit off a bit. Telfast or Zirtex doesn't slow you down as much. This dust and stuff also get on and in your camera. Cover up as much as you can. Last edited by Bob Hart; December 15th, 2007 at 06:57 AM. Reason: errors

January 16th, 2008, 11:30 PM	#37
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	Hi all.............. Well, sad to relate, this particular gig is a bust. I've been shut out well and truly and the winners don't even want to know squat (this seems to be the biggest secret in NZ as to whom the winners actually are - absolutely no one in the know will say squat, not sure what the heck is going on there). My heartfelt thanks to all of you who responded, your support was indeed terrific and I feel sure that had I been a bit quicker on my feet with this it might just have been a goer (tho', in hindsight, swinging this on the basis of "The Dirty Dozen meets The Magnificant Seven" could have been a bit of a hard sell!). My shattered ego and I will limp off into the gathering gloom and plan our revenge. I'm going up anyway with all the gear and I'll be damned if those guys get all the best shots (and by whatsit will it cost 'em if I get one they don't!). Said only half in jest, if I did, of course they could have it for a, er, small consideration. Again, my thanks to you all, guys and guyesses. Hopefully next time I'll pull it off. CS

January 16th, 2008, 10:20 PM	#36
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	I sent you an email, but one word of advice - forget the H4. its NOT time stable and will drift. get a laptop and a multi input analog FW audio interface. you should also look at several scanners each covering one of the frequencies in use. one won't work very well. could also look for a Deva recorder.

January 17th, 2008, 01:59 AM	#38
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	For what its worth and it may be a little too late now to arrange, you might try to get a media accreditation to get access to some closed areas. The other player's exclusivity deal may of course ban you out of any such areas but it may be worth a try. If you can approach your local public access channel, assuming you have one in NZ, ask them to annoint you as their official videographer, you might get half a chance if their piece of paper is impressive. The footage you shoot this time round would not be an earner unless it was absolutely outstanding and unique in which case everyone including the offical player may want a piece of your action. Unfortunately, such footage is often associated with disaster and I have some severe misgivings about profiting from such. My personal policy with aviators is to state before I shoot any footage at an event, that if I observe the development of any "playing up for the camera" or inappropriate risk taking, I will turn the camera around off the shot and walk away from it and have done so. You may miss the money shot but your integrity will remain intact. Good luck and enjoy. Last edited by Bob Hart; January 17th, 2008 at 02:03 AM. Reason: error

January 23rd, 2008, 06:02 PM	#39
Sam Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 28	Re Wanaka Hey dont worry about it Chris, While Wanaka is a nice venue and yes they have some nice aircraft, Omaka and even Wings over Wairarapa and growing and are just as much fun especially with the Peter Jackson Collection of aircraft participating.... cheers Sam __________________ [

March 29th, 2008, 02:48 AM	#40
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,689 Images: 18	For all you wonderfull people........... who responded so enthusiastically, wholeheartedly and considerately to this thread, this is my bottom line on the actual event. Lessons learnt, ego given distinct reality check, hmm, maybe air shows ain't my thing. This is the summary: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=117949 CS