New star rises over digital cinema – noX HD/2K

[Dylan Couper]

Marc, you really should allocate more budget towards marketing. It doesn't matter how good your camera is if no one buys it, right? You've got a LOT of competition, established competition, at that price point, and a lot of competition even at half that price. You do a decent job in person, but your website does nothing to excite the viewer about the camera. ALthough I work in production I have a background in marketing (which is why my clients like me).

You know you have a problem when a bunch of us looked at your website and guessed your price point was $13-$15,000, when your price is really $49k+. I guarantee we aren't the only ones.

No offense meant, just trying to be constructive.

[Jim Jannard]

Originally Posted by Marc O. Hardt

By the way, we’re spending our money on research and development, not on massive marketing and the production of renderings of a camera that does not yet fully exist. It’s not about producing hype – it’s about producing a useful camera.

You may ask, why we didn’t announce this camera on dvinfo before? Because we wanted her to be finished, so that dvinfo users can discuss about facts, not speculations or just announcements. noX is on the market, with orders starting now!

Marc O. Hardt

Ouch... was that directed at us? We actually spent most of our money on sensor development. And we came to the boards BEFORE we were finished so we could actually listen to the community before delivery. Many of the features we have added in the last year are from suggestions from our customers.

We wish you only the best.

Jim Jannard
www.red.com

[Mark Kenfield]

This is fantastic, RED, Silicon 2k, now noX - the competition in digital cinema is really starting to heat up! I'm really looking forward to people finally recognising that "digital" does not have to equal "video". Such an exciting time in technology at the moment.

So to Jim, Marc and everyone involved in bringing digital cinema to the world I offer a sincere thank you.

[Marc O. Hardt]

Dear Kevin and Dylan: Thank you very much for your encouragement. I know that without the right marketing you cannot sell anything. Right now we are just getting started advertising our camera. When I talked about spending money on research not on marketing, I aimed a little bit at Red. Sorry Jim, nothing personal. I admire your work and I am sure that both cameras have their market. Two different cameras, two different marketing strategies, same intent: bringing next generation movie making to the industry.

Dear Jim, we wish you all the best, too.

Dear Robert, you got our point! Thank you very much. But please consider that the price is excluding lenses.

Dear Mark: Thank you very much!

During the discussion, some questions have been raised. Here are the answers:

Q: Certainly looks very promising. Price details would be good to know though, and whether that is a prototype body or whether one with slightly better ergonomics might be forthcoming?

A: The design is as seen on the pictures. The serial camera looks mostly like this.

Q: If it is "on the market" what is the price of the camera and the add-ons?

A. The price of the camera is 49,890 USD / 36.870 EUR. Prices for the add-ons will be published soon.

Q: The real question is price and codec?

A. Price, please see above. What data format can you render to? Whatever you like, it only depends on the installed codecs on the rendering machine, e.g. noXboX (Digital MAZ for noX). Standard formats included are TIFF, BMP, TGA, JPEG, JPEG2000, SGI, PNG, etc. You can render to image sequences or to AVI files. And you can install any codec you like.

Q: How would one go about editing the footage from this camera?

A: Recording is at 8 bit, though you could finely adjust gamma/hd-/s-curves and no further compression is performed. No compression artefacts will occur when you do colour grading. Post production experts have told us that they have never seen material that could be so widely graded except for good 35 mm scans.
Our workflow uses supplied conversion software to convert the on-board RAW material to any format you like. Alternatively you can use the noXboX for redundant recording, securing, converting your footage and for HD-SDI output. Redundant recording means that you could record on the noX and at the same time on the noXboX, securing your recordings at two independent places. This gives you additional safety for your valuable recordings. Either way, the format you choose gets into your edit pipeline.

Q: What is the sensor size ?

A: noX has a single 1.2" CCD chip.

If you have any further queries, please feel free to visit our FAQ (http://www.gsvitec.com/faqs_about_di...camera_nox.htm) or contact me directly: contact AT gsvitec.com

Marc

[Philipp Serba]

since I´ve had the ability to give this camera a try (for testing purposes), I have got to say that I hadn´t the feeling of another videocamera. While shooting with an HDW, I always had to keep in mind that a certain "look" will (hopefully) turn out in post. So, going for digital cinematography price isn´t everything. I was kind of reliefed when I looked at the picture through an HD-SDI and really thought, what would the picture look like after a telecine. We ended up with an amazing quality, which was ways cheaper than it looked like. So price isn´t everything.
But after all I´m interessted, too... ;0)

[Peter Ferling]

Price IS everything when you're on a budget. It's been said before, RED is considered the ultimate 'video' camera. For the price of the NoX, you could almost buy two RED kits, or extra lens', etc.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

No, Marc said the basic package is without lenses.

Sorry guys, but with competition from RED and SI I don't think you guys have a lot of chance to break trough...
I don't want to hurt anyones feelings, but RED is 4k for 17.5, has a great workflow, great accessoires, is upgreadable, has some big names after them, and already great samples that are as good, or better as the ones on your site...

I think if you want to get a chance, you really will have to lower your price.
James Cameron and Peter Jackson also come from the filmworld and not the video world. And both of them have reserved a RED...

[Don Donatello]

for some price is not the final yes/no consideration ...
somebody is going to buy a viper , F23 , cineAlta over camera's in the 17-30k a range ... perhaps they like the image ? perhaps they're clients already have workflow in place ? they buy because they think it is best for them at the time ...
1-2 years down the line they may find out they made a mistake or it was the right choice ...

[Greg Hartzell]

I don't get this companies mission statement: "It's not about counting pixels, but making pixels count."

Maybe I'm the only one here, but from the sample stills that these guys have posted on their website, I'm really not impressed. Where is the high contrast? I would really like to see some tight mosaics. What about some low light shots?

And the camera: This thing is supposed to mimic a film movie camera? No through the lens viewfinder? What is the storage medium? Check out what arri and panavision are doing with their digi cine cams. I'd agree that Red is the ultimate video camera. Check out Dalsa's Origin: http://www.dalsa.com/dc/4K_products/origin_main.asp
These guys post full res .tiffs of some amazing shots.

It seems to me that this cam is far from an integrated system.

Just my 2c

[Thomas Smet]

Another thing I am shocked about is the fact that this camera only records 8 bit material. That almost seems like a big step backwards for a digital cinema camera. Now I know 8 bit can look very good but 10 bit or higher is even better.

What about a Apple workflow? You mention still image sequences and AVI files but what about quicktime files?

[James Klatt]

so Red only costs $17,500, and you are set to start shooting and editing?

I heard when all is said and done with lenses, storage. displays, monitors, etc. that it was costing 3x times as much.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Originally Posted by James Klatt

so Red only costs $17,500, and you are set to start shooting and editing?

I heard when all is said and done with lenses, storage. displays, monitors, etc. that it was costing 3x times as much.

That's a bit of a naive statement.
Yes, RED is only 17.500, but with lenses and storage it of course goes up

BUT

if you buy a Cinealta the body alone is around 70.000 - 100.000 dollars, also WITHOUT LENS, and storage.
If you buy the camera that's anounced here ,it's 50.000 dollar, ALSO WITHOUT storage and lenses. See the point?
Professional cameras ALWAYS come without lens, storage, displays,...
EVERY camera always costs a bit or much more with all the accessoires with it...

[Matt Gottshalk]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

$49,000 is what Marc told me.

DOA. Not with the other alternatives out there.

[Ben Winter]

Originally Posted by Marc O. Hardt

Dear Kevin and Dylan: Thank you very much for your encouragement. I know that without the right marketing you cannot sell anything. Right now we are just getting started advertising our camera. When I talked about spending money on research not on marketing, I aimed a little bit at Red. Sorry Jim, nothing personal. I admire your work and I am sure that both cameras have their market. Two different cameras, two different marketing strategies, same intent: bringing next generation movie making to the industry.

Dear Jim, we wish you all the best, too.

I think it's a little unfair to aim at RED like that when they're about to deliver a camera three times cheaper than yours and with many months worth of helpful, intimate discussion on what we as buyers want to see in it.

For instance, if you had done the same, you might have learned that many of us would prefer 10-bit. "Why pay more for less" would be the adage that comes to mind.

[Wes Vasher]

Is 8 bit even acceptable for digital cine? I can't imagine it would be. And as Red and SI have proven, workflow is huge, seems the workflow here is DIY.