Brainstorming a future US$3,000 Samsung cinema camera?

[David Peterson]

Official statement: Samsung withdraws from camera market in Germany - EOSHD

This is a shame because the NX1 and NX500 are best in class for video performance and features, in some ways for stills too. Perhaps Samsung should consider building a professional $3000 cinema camera based around the Super 35mm sensor in the NX1 which plays on their astounding technological strengths

Andrew Reid suggested Samsung should make a cinema camera, and thought that is such a great idea it deserves its own detailed response thus this blog post . (waves to Samsung reps! Hopes they're reading.... one can but hope!)

I don't think it would take much more to get there (well.... it would be a significant sized project for Samsung for sure, but easily well within their grasp to pull off). Because the Samsung NX1 is already such a fantastic video camera! The best at its price point, and arguably the best stills camera for filming with at *any* price point! Even over a year later since the Samsung NX1 was announced. (yes, I'm even including the new Sony A7s mk2 in this comparison! Though what is "best" at this point can at times get to be highly subjective, depending on what you place more or less weight on as being important) Thus we could easily imagine how great a pro version of the NX1 focused on filming (rather than photo stills) could be....

All Samsung need to do is increase the size of the NX1 body the minimum amount needed so it can do this (perhaps C100/C300 shape/size? Although, I'd much much rather have the ergonomics of an FS5/FS7! But even if, g-d forbid, it has the shape of an FS100/FS700 then I'd still be "ok" with that that!):

1) Make space for dual mSATA slots, perhaps mSATA already in their own simple plastic casing like what Atomos does with SSDs (I think Sound Devices made a good choice going mSATA on their small PIX-E5 recorder, and in a small camera it makes even more sense over the large SSDs). Dual slots are needed so you can write a proxy to the 2nd slot, or just simply if you need the extra bandwidth when doing 6.5K raw at high speed. Can't stick with SD cards, as they won't handle 4K ProRes HQ, which leads me onto my next point....

2) Add DNxHR / ProRes, whichever licensing of DNxHR or ProRes is easiest for them to get. Though having ProRes HQ would be preferable I suspect over DNxHR (just because ProRes is more commonly recognised by the market, thanks to BMD and others widely using them), plus ProRes 444 or even raw would be dreamy! (but maybe a little unrealistic in a $3k camera?!)
3) Add two XLR inputs.

4) Make its HDMI port a full sized HDMI port.

5) Add two SDI outputs (important to have two, what happens if one breaks? You'll have a nearly useless camera for many people, as SDI is for them *essential*. Plus is very common to run more than one monitor in a production environment, thus got to have two)

I think if Samsung did this (and nothing else, just the five points listed above: mSATA + DNxHR/ProRes + XLR + full HDMI + SDI inputs) for US$3,000 then they'd have a huge huge indy cinema camera hit on their hands! The next DVX100 or 5Dmk2 of our generation??

Even if it came out at US$5k I reckon it could maybe still be rather successful, although it would be up against the URSA Mini 4.6K, Sony FS5, and Canon C100 mk2, all at a similar price point. (plus whatever else comes out in the next 6 months)

For bonus points Samsung could do:

1) Camera mount: just before, I'm assuming they're sticking with the Samsung NX mount that the NX1 has, and only making the body a little bit bigger. As Andrew mentioned perhaps their mount held back sales of the NX1, maybe this cinema camera should have a different mount? Ideally I'd like to see them use the Sony FZ mount (as this would mark it out as a true cinema camera, able to be used with the best of the best cinema lenses, yet also allowing tremendous flexibility with this mount!), next best choice would be using the Sony E mount, 3rd best is Micro Four Thirds (like the JVC LS300). Branding/marketing/licensing issues mean I expect sadly all of these are out of the question. Thus I feel the best Samsung can realistically do is create their own open cinema mount, which has similar features to the Sony FZ mount. But make it completely open and easy for anybody else to adapt. Thus Samsung will start off by selling their Samsung Cinema Camera with the high prestige PL Mount, but in a blink of an eye we'll see third party manufacturers offering adapters for everything you can possibly imagine (like they do now for the Sony FZ mount!).

2) High Speed Options: apparently their engineers managed 6.5K 240fps in testing, maybe we could at least get this cinema camera to give us 1080p 240fps or 4K 60fps?

3) High than 4K resolutions: give us all 6.5K resolution from the sensor!! :-o

4) Raw: need I say any more? This could hit it out of the park!

What are your thoughts? Remember, it should be based on the existing underlying NX1 technology (so not too much more R&D is needed for Samsung to get it to market. As even this limited list would take a huge effort on Samsung's part to make happen) or using commonplace readily available tech (such as mSATA, or SDI connections) and hit a US$3k price point or at least not more than a couple thousand over that.
Brainstorming a future US$3,000 Samsung cinema camera. | David Peterson

[Noa Put]

Who's Andrew Reid? I have heard of the site but is that not a tabloid wannabe filmmakers blog? I have read several rumors of the NX1 being pulled from the market but is there any official announcement made by Samsung yet on their site? Where I live at least the camera is still sold at full price in major video stores (and Germany is our neighbor) and I see on B&h that is the case as well so maybe only a few countries are involved, maybe the camera will continue to be updated with firmware?

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts right now is to stop dreaming and use what I have in my camerabag or what I can buy in a store, in fact, I emptied my bank account again and will go out right now and have some fun with a new existing camera, need I say more? :)

[David Peterson]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Who's Andrew Reid? I have heard of the site but is that not a tabloid wannabe filmmakers blog?

He runs a very popular blog for the low budget indie filmmaker who is into getting maximum bang from their buck. He is also a great resource if you're into anamorphic shooting!

And runs a popular forum, which is the #1 place to go to if you're filming with an NX1.

He has written quite a few good blog posts about the NX1 going into detail about it:
Samsung NX1 vs Canon C300 (image quality) - EOSHD
Samsung NX1 Review - The glory of technology - EOSHD

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I have read several rumors of the NX1 being pulled from the market but is there any official announcement made by Samsung yet on their site? Where I live at least the camera is still sold at full price in major video stores (and Germany is our neighbor) and I see on B&h that is the case as well so maybe only a few countries are involved, maybe the camera will continue to be updated with firmware?

Andrew Reid is unique that he got official confirmation from Samsung they're pulling out of the German market.

And yes, the camera has already had *HUGE* updates via firmware! It has been better supported than any other camera I've seen lately. Is an entirely different camera since it was released! The firmware updates are that good, Samsung has been awesome in that regards. However by now the NX1 is already over a year old. I don't really find it that odd if the NX1 is being pulled back, maybe the NX2 is soon? Although we ought to be seeing first the NX50 be launched.

Originally Posted by Noa Put

My thoughts right now is to stop dreaming and use what I have in my camerabag or what I can buy in a store, in fact, I emptied my bank account again and will go out right now and have some fun with a new existing camera, need I say more? :)

Oh, what camera did you get? :)

And yes, I do go out a lot and use what I have now! ;) But it is just too good fun to gossip/speculate/dream over cameras as well... hehe ;) :-D

[Noa Put]

He runs a very popular blog

I know he runs a very *cough* sensationalist *cough* popular blog, not my cup of tea and I rather get my info over here where once it is published by the site's admin, I know it's a fact.

Oh, what camera did you get? :)

One that can shoot pretty pictures. :)

And yes, I do go out a lot and use what I have now! ;) But it is just too good fun to gossip/speculate/dream over cameras as well... hehe ;) :-D

For me it's like people talking about what they would do if they won the lottery. I know it's fun to dream about gear and I don't want to spoil the fun for anyone who wants to participate in this thread so I will stop adding more non relevant stuff. I do hope however that whatever you wish for comes true, you know, Christmas is coming up, who knows Santa may grant some of those wishes. :)

[David Peterson]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

For me it's like people talking about what they would do if they won the lottery.

Everybody has their weird quirks :-P For me writing and discussing this is more entertaining than talking about football and whatever team won/lost last weekend. Or whatever it is that "normal" people do in their spare time.... ha

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I know he runs a very *cough* sensationalist *cough* popular blog, not my cup of tea and I rather get my info over here where once it is published by the site's admin, I know it's a fact.

Reid is a hobbyist camera enthusiast whose primary job is web design. He doesn't pay his rent by having clients and shooting projects. He pays his rent by getting people to go to his website. Thus, he has a vested interest in writing whatever he can to get people to click-through and visit. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you have to understand that's where he is coming from so that you can properly interpret anything you read about that sources from there.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by David Peterson

Everybody has their weird quirks :-P For me writing and discussing this is more entertaining than talking about football and whatever team won/lost last weekend. Or whatever it is that "normal" people do in their spare time.... ha

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that I don’t appreciate what kind of discussion you are trying to start here, who knows, maybe someone might pick some points up and share it in a meeting at a videocompany. Yesterday I read on the JVC Europe site about their version 2.0 firmware release of their gy-ls300 camera and they said “We listened to our customers and made sure this firmware upgrade delivered the features they wanted” and I always wonder to who they listen, it’s not only jvc who says this but other companies do this as well. Do they look on blogs, forums or do they just lend out the camera to professionals, ask them for feedback and improve based on their recommendations? They certainly never listen to me :)

When I bought the sony nex ea50 there where also some shortcoming which I”m sure where easily resolved with a firmware update, it where complaints that you could read about on many forums and Sony did release a new firmware, only to add useless features.

My perfect camera does exist and I”m sure it does so for everyone but it’s never within the 3K range, the problem with camera’s below 3k is that the manufacturers have a big playing field to make a lot of products that are crippled in one or another way in order to hopefully make you buy the camera you actually need at 2 to 5 times the cost. Who wouldn’t want to have a c300 mark II or a c500 and a whole set of cine primes? But ofcourse you need to stay realistic and work with what you can afford and work around the limitations manufacturers force upon who doesn’t want or cannot cough up the money to get the real thing.

That’s why I find what you are asking for unrealistic, IF Samsumg would build a camera based on your wishlist it would be between 5 and 7K maybe even more expensive. Just look at what Canon does, They don’t care much about the lower 3K camera market, they are innovating at 5K+ because there is where the pro territory starts and that’s where probably the money is. Not everyone buys such an expensive camera but there are loads of rental places that do.

I have stopped dreaming long time ago and just buy today what is on the market and see what camera or camera’s come closest to my needs and wallet. I”m invested deep into m4/3 camera’s/lenses and plan to stay there now, even if sony brings out a camera tomorrow that can do 1 million iso. :)

About Andrew’s blog, I just went over there to have a look to maybe find another reminder why I stopped visiting it and it took 2 threads to see why, he responded to another users opinion in this way (I removed a few words because this is after all a civilized forum where it is expected to treat eachother with respect.

“OK now you are talking out of your **** hole and not even a human **** hole but a rats one.”

Not sure what I need to add to this but is says a lot about him as a person and that is a community I rather not be a part off. It's just one of the reasons I stopped visiting but here is not the place to go further into that, I don't want to give his site too much attention.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

About Andrew’s blog, I just went over there to have a look to maybe find another reminder why I stopped visiting it and it took 2 threads to see why, he responded to another users opinion in this way (I removed a few words because this is after all a civilized forum where it is expected to treat eachother with respect.

“OK now you are talking out of your **** hole and not even a human **** hole but a rats one.”

Which is why I'm proud to say that Andrew Reid blocks me on Twitter.

Also, for context. Apparently this is what you get from him for daring to suggest an iPad being a decent desktop replacement.

[Dylan Couper]

Dear Samsung.

If you want to destroy all of the current "video" cameras in the prosumer market by making a dedicated video version of the NX1, please contact me via DVinfo (not VDinfo where I'm also well known), under the subject "Dylan knows more about why cameras suck than some a-hole on a blog who doesn't even shoot."

Looking forward to CEO perks on company money.