Full-size 35mm sensor 1080p camera head at DVinfo.net

Alex Raskin · July 16th, 2009, 09:29 AM

Basically SI-2K would be ideal if it had a full-size 35mm sensor like upcoming RED cameras' FF35.

I love how SI-2K features a small, light-weight head; a fantastic software control interface with live picture viewer, waveform, and LUTs; and that it works on any contemporary laptop via network cable. And it records in Cineform RAW - a huge deal for me, as I'm a self-confessed Cineform addict :)

But SI-2K only has 2/3" sensor, which makes its imagery very much alike of those of Sony EX1 in terms of DOF and almost everything else.

What I am looking for is something like SI-2K, but with the full-size 35mm sensor for shallow DOF without adapter...

I'd also be OK just capturing the output via HD-SDI (I have a custom Cineform recorder). Thus I only need a camera head.

Ideas?..

Brian Drysdale · July 16th, 2009, 12:01 PM

If you need something now a RED One, or check out the DSLR cameras that shoot HD, but they don't record RAW. However, I suspect the most these cameras will ever offer will be HDMI rather than HD SDI unless they're planning to go head to head with the 35mm sensor Scarlet in the future.

Although you could check out this:

KINOR Digital Cinema equipment - DC4K

How real it is, I couldn't tell you.

Mark Kenfield · July 20th, 2009, 09:22 PM

The SI-2K is a fantastic little(ish) camera, and its touch-screen interface is operational bliss. Certainly one point to keep in mind is the fact that the camera head is a modular component. So if Silicon Imaging do release a 35mm-sized sensor (I would expect S35mm-sized rather than FF35mm-sized) you'd be able to slot it right in to your SI-2K and get shooting.

Why not drop the guys at SI a line and ask whether you could expect a larger camera head in the future? I can't imagine it's not a serious issue on their agenda given the 35mm madness going on at the moment.

Alex Raskin · July 20th, 2009, 10:30 PM

I'm not being very successful getting a response from SI at the moment.

Also, if they were actually planning something like an increase in the sensor size, I'm sure they would publicize it...

Bob Hart · July 21st, 2009, 10:40 AM

My understanding is from recollection of past reads of threads on various forums. I could be wrong on this so please don't ascribe any authority to my comment :-

Available 35mm sensor performance is yet to come up to Silicon Imaging's expectations. I am assuming they are referrring to 2K 35mm sensors.

Cost effectiveness of other than a 2K 35mm sensor based package versus staying with 2/3". Even up to date home computer systems get a bellyache dealing with 4K motion image data.

A slimmed down system as used in the SI2K probably doesn't have a prayer of handling 4K until another generation of processors, compact motherboards and memory comes along. A 2K 35mm sensor is probably the only way forward for the SI2K at the moment.

As I understand things, in the SI2K system, provided you work in a cineform environment, you can go straight to edit without proxies or conversion stages.

Another argument against going 35mm has been that the range of Super16mm superspeed lenses now available enables most of the sensible shallow depths of field effects available in 35mm cine lenses to be realised within the aperture range of those superspeed Super16mm lenses. I acknowledge there is a different "look" based on apparent perspective with the 2/3" or Super16mm film image formats.

I would favour HD-SDI out as an additional option which would enable the Ki-Pro product as an alternative recording medium for the Mac users to get SI2K origination straight into ProResHD which seems to be their preference.

But who knows what the elves and gnomes in the R&D departments of SI and P+S Technik are playing with right now and keeping close to their chests. They could be chasing each other around the lab with a SS35 prototype taking happy snaps right now or simply saying they have other fish to fry and allowing the product to age.

Good wine improves with age, not so electronic technologies, so I hope they do not leave it too long if they are not already moving on this. The SI2K system grew out of enthusiast roots. Maybe that is where a new impetus has to come from.

Alex Raskin · July 24th, 2009, 12:58 AM

I was thinking about something like that:

IPX-2M30H-G | Imperx Inc.

but with standard framerates, possibly Nikon SLR mount for the lens, and great GUI like SI-2K has...

Alex Raskin · July 24th, 2009, 01:21 AM

David, do you have experience with this cam?

Gigabit Ethernet CMOS Cameras: SMX-12A2C

Is it possible to capture from it into Cineform? How?

Thanks!

July 16th, 2009, 09:29 AM	#1
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Full-size 35mm sensor 1080p camera head Basically SI-2K would be ideal if it had a full-size 35mm sensor like upcoming RED cameras' FF35. I love how SI-2K features a small, light-weight head; a fantastic software control interface with live picture viewer, waveform, and LUTs; and that it works on any contemporary laptop via network cable. And it records in Cineform RAW - a huge deal for me, as I'm a self-confessed Cineform addict :) But SI-2K only has 2/3" sensor, which makes its imagery very much alike of those of Sony EX1 in terms of DOF and almost everything else. What I am looking for is something like SI-2K, but with the full-size 35mm sensor for shallow DOF without adapter... I'd also be OK just capturing the output via HD-SDI (I have a custom Cineform recorder). Thus I only need a camera head. Ideas?..

July 21st, 2009, 10:40 AM	#5
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	My understanding is from recollection of past reads of threads on various forums. I could be wrong on this so please don't ascribe any authority to my comment :- Available 35mm sensor performance is yet to come up to Silicon Imaging's expectations. I am assuming they are referrring to 2K 35mm sensors. Cost effectiveness of other than a 2K 35mm sensor based package versus staying with 2/3". Even up to date home computer systems get a bellyache dealing with 4K motion image data. A slimmed down system as used in the SI2K probably doesn't have a prayer of handling 4K until another generation of processors, compact motherboards and memory comes along. A 2K 35mm sensor is probably the only way forward for the SI2K at the moment. As I understand things, in the SI2K system, provided you work in a cineform environment, you can go straight to edit without proxies or conversion stages. Another argument against going 35mm has been that the range of Super16mm superspeed lenses now available enables most of the sensible shallow depths of field effects available in 35mm cine lenses to be realised within the aperture range of those superspeed Super16mm lenses. I acknowledge there is a different "look" based on apparent perspective with the 2/3" or Super16mm film image formats. I would favour HD-SDI out as an additional option which would enable the Ki-Pro product as an alternative recording medium for the Mac users to get SI2K origination straight into ProResHD which seems to be their preference. But who knows what the elves and gnomes in the R&D departments of SI and P+S Technik are playing with right now and keeping close to their chests. They could be chasing each other around the lab with a SS35 prototype taking happy snaps right now or simply saying they have other fish to fry and allowing the product to age. Good wine improves with age, not so electronic technologies, so I hope they do not leave it too long if they are not already moving on this. The SI2K system grew out of enthusiast roots. Maybe that is where a new impetus has to come from. Last edited by Bob Hart; July 21st, 2009 at 11:03 AM. Reason: added text

July 16th, 2009, 12:01 PM	#2
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	If you need something now a RED One, or check out the DSLR cameras that shoot HD, but they don't record RAW. However, I suspect the most these cameras will ever offer will be HDMI rather than HD SDI unless they're planning to go head to head with the 35mm sensor Scarlet in the future. Although you could check out this: KINOR Digital Cinema equipment - DC4K How real it is, I couldn't tell you.

July 20th, 2009, 09:22 PM	#3
Mark Kenfield Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 470	The SI-2K is a fantastic little(ish) camera, and its touch-screen interface is operational bliss. Certainly one point to keep in mind is the fact that the camera head is a modular component. So if Silicon Imaging do release a 35mm-sized sensor (I would expect S35mm-sized rather than FF35mm-sized) you'd be able to slot it right in to your SI-2K and get shooting. Why not drop the guys at SI a line and ask whether you could expect a larger camera head in the future? I can't imagine it's not a serious issue on their agenda given the 35mm madness going on at the moment.

July 20th, 2009, 10:30 PM	#4
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	I'm not being very successful getting a response from SI at the moment. Also, if they were actually planning something like an increase in the sensor size, I'm sure they would publicize it...

July 24th, 2009, 12:58 AM	#6
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	I was thinking about something like that: IPX-2M30H-G \| Imperx Inc. but with standard framerates, possibly Nikon SLR mount for the lens, and great GUI like SI-2K has...

July 24th, 2009, 01:21 AM	#7
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	David, do you have experience with this cam? Gigabit Ethernet CMOS Cameras: SMX-12A2C Is it possible to capture from it into Cineform? How? Thanks!