Could Canon Challenge RED?

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by Lauri Kettunen

...
What comes to business style I feel the same way as Chris. Canon, Sony, Nikon all have marketing depts around the world in all major countries and this costs alot. So far RED is nothing but a website, main office in California and the new center to be opened in London.
...

I thought Red was opening an entire production ranch/compound complete with sound stages in Las Vegas?

Like Mr. Mullen said, I don't believe Canon or Nikon have any interest in directly challenging Red for the digital cinema market. But Canon must for the high prosumer maket, b/c that's where the XL's and XH's live. If Canon doesn't do something, Scarlet will kill them. Well there is another wildcard... I wonder how this whole financial crisis has effected Red? Hopefully not much.

[David Garvin]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Canon must for the high prosumer maket, b/c that's where the XL's and XH's live. If Canon doesn't do something, Scarlet will kill them.

Why do people say things like this when we don't even really know what Scarlet will be?

Originally Posted by Don Miller

As far as Scarlet, the product isn't even defined. So how it fits with the 5DII and other products doesn't seem particularly relevant.

Exactly.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Robert Sanders

True. But I've been told that there's really very little demand for a manual HD lens. They'd probably only sell a couple hundred of them. And on top of that the older 16x manual lens actually works really well on the H1.

They'd make more than a couple of hundred manual HD lenses for the 2/3" broadcast cameras, chances are in the high thousands (perhaps not currently in the lower 10 of thousands) in a currently expanding HD broadcast market. Nearly every HD 2/3" camera will have its own manual zoom, plus many will have an optional W/A zoom and not forgetting the more specialized higher zoom range lenses.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Originally Posted by Don Miller

I don't think RED makes any chips. They ordered the sensor from someone with expertise.

I don't know for sure, but I think that the RED Mysterium Sensor is their own design, and patented.

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by David Garvin

Why do people say things like this when we don't even really know what Scarlet will be?
...

I know that the baseline for Scarlet was set at $3,500 w/ a 3K 2/3rd's inch sensor. That obliterates Canon. Jim has said that while Scarlet is changing, the result will be more camera, not less.

Barring severe stock market injury, I tend to believe Red will deliver.

[Alkim Un]

yes,

canon already challenged RED with 5D II, because Red chenged the Scarlet plans after it. and this is a very big mistake of red !

this issue is a kind of being big fish or small fish thing. both has its own advantages and disadvantages. "FOR NOW" Red is a small fish. quick and mobile company. but next year it won't have this luxury. so company should make some critical desicions now whether it will grow around the world or stay as a small company in USA and took orders fron internet. Jim jennard should know that web only delivers ideas not the cameras !

If red chooses growing worldwide, should spend considerable time and effort about choosing distirbutors and marketing strategy. I think it is much more harder than listening people's needs and designing 5k camera! Here in Turkey, in İstanbul, there are big distributors that have nearly every kind of video product and famous brands. for example one dealer have 3 brands of cranes and tripods, Sony, Panasonic cameras. these are very big and financialy very reliable distributors for the brands. but at the same time they don't care much of the customer needs. you can't see any products at their web site or comminicate and ask by phone unless you are from a big Television or production company.

so if red chooses such kind of distributor in turkey other countries, it fails. being big company does not mean it isn't operational. but if you have old, big and stable distributors that resist you, then you can't turn quickly.

I think there is one way for growing worldwide. if jim jenard gave birth to this brand with imagination and considering every individual's thoughts, then he have to choose such kind of people to distirbute the Red and its philosophy behind. and such dealers only sell Red not anyother things.

For canon side, Sony pushes pressure to it with its EX series much more than Red I think. because it was a killjoy to intrduce 1/2 " sensor. So canon must do something. but it wont introduce 35 mm sensor. maybe bigger than 1/3 inch, but 1080 50p, different codec for sure...

tnhks
alkım.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Alkim Un

... Red chenged the Scarlet plans after it. and this is a very big mistake of red !

Huh? They've announced their decision to improve it -- how is that a mistake?

Jim jennard... jim jenard

Geez... at least spell his name right. Credibility slips away with every typo.

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by Don Miller

Do you mean better audio support? It does have a mono mic and 2 channel unbalanced inputs. The two Rode video cam mics (shotgun and stereo) should work on top of the 5dII.

Hmm... that does make things different. And for the same price, after you get the lenses, as an XH-A1, and with things like Beachtek adapters for plugging in XLR mics... and with a 30 minute 1080p record time...

Bah. I'll stick with my HV20s for now.

[David Garvin]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

I know that the baseline for Scarlet was set at $3,500 w/ a 3K 2/3rd's inch sensor. That obliterates Canon.

Clearly you are not correct. If that spec "obliterates" canon, then there would have been zero need for Red to completley redesign the Scarlet. None.

Scarlet's baseline couldn't compete with what Canon is releasing and that's why the specs are changing. There's nothing wrong with Red changing their specs and trying to keep up and compete and even possibly trump the current crop of DSLRs. I have no issues with that at all. But to claim that Red is going to obliterate Canon is pure hyperbole. Especially when your evidence of what obliterates Canon are specs that Red itself decided weren't going to be able to compete in a way that they had hoped.

[Kurth Bousman]

>>>Geez... at least spell his name right. Credibility slips away with every typo.<<<

I think he's doing pretty good since his native language is probably Turkish .

[Chris Hurd]

Language is no excuse for misspelling a name... I can properly spell Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Nicolae Ceauşescu, and Ferenc Puskás even though I can't write or speak Turkish, Romanian, or Hungarian.

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by David Garvin

Clearly you are not correct. If that spec "obliterates" canon, then there would have been zero need for Red to completley redesign the Scarlet. None.

Scarlet's baseline couldn't compete with what Canon is releasing and that's why the specs are changing. There's nothing wrong with Red changing their specs and trying to keep up and compete and even possibly trump the current crop of DSLRs. I have no issues with that at all. But to claim that Red is going to obliterate Canon is pure hyperbole. Especially when your evidence of what obliterates Canon are specs that Red itself decided weren't going to be able to compete in a way that they had hoped.

David, if you read a few posts up, you'll see that I'm refering to Canon's current crop of video cameras. Not what you think might becoming out.

[Lauri Kettunen]

Originally Posted by Don Miller

I don't think RED makes any chips. They ordered the sensor from someone with expertise.

You are not the first one to make such a claim. Many people have speculated which label is there on the sensor. But Jim Jannard has said explicitly it's a RED sensor and that the sensor program is a key part of their design. Personally have no reason to believe anything else.

Peter, yes RED is opening their new site somewhere near Las Vegas. But they are also opening a site near London. European camera owners will send their cameras to the audio hardware update --free update including shipping costs plus some other smaller hardware updates-- to this new branch office in England.

Having used the camera for 6 months and although I'm targeting to 1080p still find the head space given by the 4K format more than useful. Consequently, shoot most of the time 4K, and employ 3K or 2K only when need higher fps.

[Don Miller]

I don't doubt that it's a custom sensor built to RED's spec. I wasn't say they were using someone's standard sensor. But as I said somewhere in this thread, even Jannard has said their primary asset is software. When a company has sensor experts and works with a fab to make their own design, I would say they are making their own sensor. But that's a long way from the hundreds of millions of dollars Canon has spent on sensor development. RED's actual cost per sensor is likely more than the retail price of the 5DII.

If Canon builds a 4K APS-C size sensor for video, it might have much better low light performance than the 5DII. It would have huge photosites compared to current DSLRs. But this is speculation, as we don't know how Canon goes from a 21mp sensor to 2mp for 1080.

I'm sure on the low end - Scarlett - RED is trying to not get stepped on by the Japanese elephants. They need to position Scarlett correctly.

RED must have big plans. I don't see how they could ever make a decent ROI in the Cine digital area. They don't charge enough. Scarlett must be critical to profitability. I hope they know what they're doing. I would really like RED to shake up the conservative imaging companies.

For users it's all good.

[Don Miller]

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Like Mr. Mullen said, I don't believe Canon or Nikon have any interest in directly challenging Red for the digital cinema market. But Canon must for the high prosumer maket, b/c that's where the XL's and XH's live. If Canon doesn't do something, Scarlet will kill them. Well there is another wildcard... I wonder how this whole financial crisis has effected Red? Hopefully not much.

Does Canon even make a 2/3" 3 CCD camera? If not, they will likely come out with a single CMOS design with lenses for that market. How does RED compare to 2/3" CCD cameras used for television?