It's Coming Thurs - Any recommended project settings for 60i/24F - EDIUS etc?

[Shawn Alyasiri]

Hi all - mine is coming Thursday, and I've just started to experiment with the workflow. I think the wildcard is going to be the 24F settings, especially if I want to combine it with 60i material. Perhaps this is a no no overall, but I can see wanting to use nice 'filmic' 24F clips, and then going to 'hyper-real' 60i clips as well. Wouldn't mind knowing various opinions/options on format combinations.

I currently have Edius 3.6+ which touts the necessary presets for the Canon camera. The 24F clips look nice in a 1440x1080 24p setting - a bit strobey on motion, but I figured that was an issue of pull-down, no-pull-down, my general ignorance of the two - plus any 24F stipulations, my monitor, or maybe it's all good. Putting a 1080 60i clip works on that timeline as well, but you lose the 60i hyper feel (expected of course on a 24 progressive timeline - which still gives a nice 'filmic' look). A 1440x1080 30p setting may be just between on 24F & 60i clips. A 1440x1080 60i project looks incredible on the 60i, and pretty good on the 24F as I recall. It may lend to some trailing/ghosting/strobing - I can't recall. A nice thing about Edius is that it will play just about any kind of clip you stick in there (including 25 frame PAL stuff). Unfortunately for my current workflow study - I kind of wish it wouldn't. Some lend to strobing, so I need to finalize my understanding of making clips conform/scale, etc.

So - I'll be looking to experiment some more A final wildcard is that I also have the HD100, by which I may want to stick some 1280 24p/30p clips in there. That would really throw a wrench into it.

I'm just wondering if I should pre-conform any 24P/24F material, scale other clips, or expect that I can just drop these various formats in on a recommended project setting timeline and just go for it. A lot of new environments to play with these days - thought someone might have a general workflow suggestion. I'm sure the best suggestion is to stay with one format for the project, and go with that...

I expect I'll be shooting a lot of events as 1080 60i, so I'm set for that. It's the frame size/rate add-ons that might keep me honest.

Sorry for the babble/length, and thanks,
Shawn

[Shawn Alyasiri]

BTW, I guess this is all contingent on how the 24F test footage around here was shot (2:3 or 2:3:3:2). Pulldown is fairly new turf for me, so I'm continuing to experiment with what's available until I have camera in hand, making assumptions along the way.

Had some fun tests tonight with the encoding side as well - made a goof and was initially encoding lower field first - I assume I should be encoding upper field to coincide with the source material (?). Played with the encoded frame rates too in ProCoder 23.976 & 29.97. Some results seemed great.

Lots of combinations - I'm guessing its a 24pA to 29.97 timeline combo to get what I want, but perhaps I need to re-render some footage prior to that, etc.

Any words of wisdom are appreciated. It's getting close anyway...

Thanks,
Shawn

[Barlow Elton]

Originally Posted by Shawn Alyasiri

BTW, I guess this is all contingent on how the 24F test footage around here was shot (2:3 or 2:3:3:2). Pulldown is fairly new turf for me, so I'm continuing to experiment with what's available until I have camera in hand, making assumptions along the way.

Pulldown in HDV, I believe, is 2:3 to tape, but it's encoded as flagged frames in MPEG2, so Edius *should* be able to extract the 24p from tape, and give you true progressive footage to edit, without any pulldown issues while editing. Sorry, I wish I could help you more with Edius, but I don't have it and I'm just going by what I've heard you can do with it.

*edit*-- I guess there is NO pulldown in 24F mode to tape. It's a true 24p recording to tape, but the playback through the camera adds the pulldown, even through firewire.

Had some fun tests tonight with the encoding side as well - made a goof and was initially encoding lower field first - I assume I should be encoding upper field to coincide with the source material (?). Played with the encoded frame rates too in ProCoder 23.976 & 29.97. Some results seemed great.

Pretty sure it's upper field first in HDV...and most other HD interlaced formats for that matter.

The strobiness you may be complaining of when viewing the m2t's is probably the pulldown of the 24F that looks like it hiccups a little bit on a progressive computer screen. The m2t's I captured were from HDVxDV and they are 29.97 clips of 24F material.

If you're talking about the strobiness *in general* of 24p, well, as you probably know, that's just the nature of the beast.

Your 24F material, combined with 60i, will look normal on a 1080i display, particularly when rendered back out with the correct pulldown.