DV Storm / Rex

Matthew de Jongh · February 2nd, 2004, 02:16 PM

i keep thinking about ditching my canopus raptor rt2 and getting the matrox rtx-100

i have had canopus products for years now and they have the same issues they have always had.

their site sucks and you have to stay on hold for 25-40 minutes to get a a tech support person.

i actually solved a few of my problems by reading some tech support documents on the matrox site!

i wasn't even going to get canopus the last time around but a client gave me a shrink wrapped raptor rt2 card and i couldn't exactly exchange it.

matthew

Mike Rehmus · February 2nd, 2004, 05:14 PM

Clearly, Matthew, you never used the Canopus forums. They make up for a lot of the slow support problems and I've yet to see a problem that doesn't get cleared up by the crew. Otherwise, Canopus would be in a lot of hot water. Except for Premiere, of course.

The Web site, however, seems just fine to me. I can get anything I want that is reasonable to get on a Web site. Since I stay plugged into the forums, I know what is new and old and I never load software until others have tried it for a while.

Most of us Canopus users use Canopus products because, if you use OK hardware, they run and run and run. I've had my DVRex for 6 years now and it hasn't run out of gas yet. Canopus still supports it with software upgrades so it stays current. No other NLE system can say that AFAIK. And the quality is second to none as is the Real time capability.

Understand that I don't use Premiere as my work doesn't need all the bells and whistles and the problem reports on it and any Canopus product would make me avoid it in any case. RexEdit and now Edius are fast and high-quality with just enough bells and whistles to make me happy.

Matthew de Jongh · February 3rd, 2004, 12:05 AM

i HAVE posted to the forums and read every message i could find when i had a problem.

it seems to me to be one of those forums where people only post problems and never reply to help out other people.

i've had canopus stuff since the original raptor.

recently i found out that there capture utility flat out doesn't work with the dvx-100a and i called their support and they didn't even want to write up a note.

the premiere capture works just fine.

they just seem like a company who isn't focused.

matthew

Robert Mann Z. · February 3rd, 2004, 12:59 AM

i have to agree with the negative comments towards canopus...canopus is based out of japan, almost all the applications except for imaginate are written in japan

in my eyes the US office is nothing more then distribution center with tech support...and have a hard time getting through users frustrations to Japan, or maybe the mother ship is just not listening...

canopus ruled the roost until fcp, avid, edition and matrox joined canopus on the software side of the software vs hardware debate...

today canopus has shifted focus to edius a new nle, which i like...it is however missing quite a few things... the ppro drivers are buggy and a new date for working drivers is non-existant...canopus software does not talk to each other, imaginate does not work with edius and edius has trouble reading some files from procoder (although i'm told that will change with 2.0 shipping next week)

canopus has very outdated filter system, that is keyframe less, i always found it cumbersome to use in premiere...the cc tools are probably the worst of the bunch with no secondary color correction and a painful i/o that is not refined...

basically canopus loss any kind of market leadership and in my eyes stained that insignia of quality with recent releases...

on the other hand the grass is not always greener, matrox has it's share of issues, as it is still very much a picky piece of hardware, i do however like what they have done with intergration with ppro, and all the extras you get...

one thing that matrox understands that canopus does not is i/o, matrox has a simplfied i/o for filterd and dialog boxes...old pros may not recognize this but newbies are a bit thrown off by look canopus gives you...

matrox also gives you alpha support for filters, transitions n such...some folks (corp video types) consider that a staple, canopus has yet to see value in this, and gives very little alpha support...

my advice at this point is stay simple, ppro is much improved, avid pro is great, edition (once learned) is limitless, and even the demo of edius 2 i used is great...so today you pretty much only need a fast pc a 1394 card....

at nab we will see the dawn of the hd editing cards, maybe even sonys vegas hardware card....

Frank Granovski · February 3rd, 2004, 01:08 AM

Let's see how DVStorm2 rates at http://www.videoguys.com....

Oops, it didn't make their Top 10 list. :-((

Robert Mann Z. · February 3rd, 2004, 01:17 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Let's see how DVStorm2 rates at http://www.videoguys.com....

Oops, it didn't make their Top 10 list. :-(( -->>>

i have a hard time trusting the 'public' opinions of those that sell the products they are talking about...

i will say that gary knows his stuff, and in this case he is probably right...

Frank Granovski · February 3rd, 2004, 01:46 AM

I was just curious about the rating there, since I'm not aware of any other sites that rate NLE software with a Top 10 each year. If you know of other sites that do this, please post their links so I can do a little reading. Thanks.

Robert Mann Z. · February 3rd, 2004, 02:32 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : I was just curious about the rating there, since I'm not aware of any other sites that rate NLE software with a Top 10 each year. If you know of other sites that do this, please post their links so I can do a little reading. Thanks. -->>>

frank are you still running win 3.1? it may be tough to get you that list...

its hard to compare nles on a whole because it depends what your needs are, just like cams, if you need a shoulder mount an mx5000 just won't do...

on the windows side there was a comparison done by media mag you can check it out here:
http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/R...ArticleID=8066

Frank Granovski · February 3rd, 2004, 03:32 AM

I'm still running WIN 3.11 on the computer I do most of my stuff on, including connecting here. (I own a few computers.) Also, I've got a new one comming soon, which my buddy is building between his 2 jobs. My NLE needs? None at the moment, but I can always play and learn. Thanks for the link.

Yes, I like WIN 3.11 a lot, and DOS even better for my games; and I do have WIN 98 on one of my 'puters, but that's not that new either. :-))

Robert Knecht Schmidt · February 3rd, 2004, 03:39 AM

Also, Frank's kitchen sink has a hand pump, and his car runs on steam power.

As for Lars's complaint, it's true that hardware compatibilities do tend to be finicky with Canopus setups, and it's a pity that he hasn't been able to get satisfactory help from the company or from the tremendous user base Canopus has built.

And while I've been a Canopus devotee since the DV Rex, I largely agree with Robert's assessment. Canopus's golden era was 1997-2000. SD DV editing just doesn't demand proprietary hardware support anymore. The faster Canopus brings out a stable, versatile, desktop-based HD editing platform, the quicker they will restore their reputation as the company to beat for DV editing.

Mike Rehmus · February 3rd, 2004, 01:57 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Let's see how DVStorm2 rates at http://www.videoguys.com....

Oops, it didn't make their Top 10 list. :-(( -->>>

Videoguys and Canopus had a falling-out a few years ago. Until then they were a major promoter of Canopus products.

They cannot be trusted to be neutral on this as they basically are not allowed to sell much of the product line. I do not know what the issues were.

As for whether they know their stuff or not, I bought into their hype about 6 years ago. Had to give away the product they sold me as their vaunted support was nowhere to be found after the first go-around. All of a sudden, Gary was always busy.

Mike Rehmus · February 3rd, 2004, 02:10 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Matthew de Jongh : i HAVE posted to the forums and read every message i could find when i had a problem.

it seems to me to be one of those forums where people only post problems and never reply to help out other people.

snip

matthew -->>>

Sorry it seems that way to you, Matthew. I have had a completely opposite experience. Even to the point of being invited to bring my computer system into Canopus in San Jose where they spent hours solving the problem. Which wasn't theirs, by the way, it was a bad design on a SCSI controller on a motherboard. They GAVE me a PCI SCSI controller to solve the problem.

And every time I've asked for help on the forum, I've received it. From Moderators, members, and Canopus employees. A brief run through the forums wouldn't leave the impression that there is no help available. It's the main reason the forums exist. Any forum for that matter.

However, as you know, there are problems that cannot be fixed. Bad computer components, bad choice of components, and as we know, a bad set of drivers from Canopus for PPro.

Still, it remains the most stable and long-lived editing system out there for me. I grew up on RexEdit (does 95+ % of everything I need to do in an NLE) and have now moved on to Edius and it's improvements. I haven't lost more than 5 days of editing to problems caused by Canopus products in the past 6 years.

I tried FAST, Pinnacle & Matrox before I found Canopus. They all had major hardware and software problems and absolutely no support.

Mike Rehmus · February 3rd, 2004, 02:17 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : i have to agree with the negative comments towards canopus...canopus is based out of japan, almost all the applications except for imaginate are written in japan

in my eyes the US office is nothing more then distribution center with tech support...and have a hard time getting through users frustrations to Japan, or maybe the mother ship is just not listening...

---------------------------------
Absolutely correct. Has been from the first with them. It is very typical of Japanese companies. Engineering-driven, no marketing to speak of.
----------------------------------

canopus ruled the roost until fcp, avid, edition and matrox joined canopus on the software side of the software vs hardware debate...

today canopus has shifted focus to edius a new nle, which i like...it is however missing quite a few things... the ppro drivers are buggy and a new date for working drivers is non-existant

-----------------------
Woa. PPro drivers are not a part of Edius just because they were released about the same time. Don't tar Edius with the PPro debacle.
-------------------------

...canopus software does not talk to each other, imaginate does not work with edius and edius has trouble reading some files from procoder (although i'm told that will change with 2.0 shipping next week)

-----------------------
Don't we hope!

I agree with everything else you say from here on so to save space I won't repeat it.

Robert Mann Z. · February 3rd, 2004, 07:11 PM

'today canopus has shifted focus to edius a new nle, which i like...it is however missing quite a few things... the ppro drivers are buggy and a new date for working drivers is non-existant"

your right poorly written, just to reconfirm..
edius GOOD
ppro drivers BAD

Mike Gunter · February 4th, 2004, 03:31 PM

Hi,

I'm fairly close to the issue and can state with clarity that although Canopus has issues with PremPro, they're being fixed.

A new driver release should happen very soon.

It seems fair to also point out that while the PremPro drivers are troublesome for many, there are many of users who use them without a hitch.

February 2nd, 2004, 05:14 PM	#62
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Clearly, Matthew, you never used the Canopus forums. They make up for a lot of the slow support problems and I've yet to see a problem that doesn't get cleared up by the crew. Otherwise, Canopus would be in a lot of hot water. Except for Premiere, of course. The Web site, however, seems just fine to me. I can get anything I want that is reasonable to get on a Web site. Since I stay plugged into the forums, I know what is new and old and I never load software until others have tried it for a while. Most of us Canopus users use Canopus products because, if you use OK hardware, they run and run and run. I've had my DVRex for 6 years now and it hasn't run out of gas yet. Canopus still supports it with software upgrades so it stays current. No other NLE system can say that AFAIK. And the quality is second to none as is the Real time capability. Understand that I don't use Premiere as my work doesn't need all the bells and whistles and the problem reports on it and any Canopus product would make me avoid it in any case. RexEdit and now Edius are fast and high-quality with just enough bells and whistles to make me happy. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

February 3rd, 2004, 03:39 AM	#70
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Also, Frank's kitchen sink has a hand pump, and his car runs on steam power. As for Lars's complaint, it's true that hardware compatibilities do tend to be finicky with Canopus setups, and it's a pity that he hasn't been able to get satisfactory help from the company or from the tremendous user base Canopus has built. And while I've been a Canopus devotee since the DV Rex, I largely agree with Robert's assessment. Canopus's golden era was 1997-2000. SD DV editing just doesn't demand proprietary hardware support anymore. The faster Canopus brings out a stable, versatile, desktop-based HD editing platform, the quicker they will restore their reputation as the company to beat for DV editing. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 3rd, 2004, 01:57 PM	#71
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Let's see how DVStorm2 rates at http://www.videoguys.com.... Oops, it didn't make their Top 10 list. :-(( -->>> Videoguys and Canopus had a falling-out a few years ago. Until then they were a major promoter of Canopus products. They cannot be trusted to be neutral on this as they basically are not allowed to sell much of the product line. I do not know what the issues were. As for whether they know their stuff or not, I bought into their hype about 6 years ago. Had to give away the product they sold me as their vaunted support was nowhere to be found after the first go-around. All of a sudden, Gary was always busy. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

February 3rd, 2004, 02:10 PM	#72
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	<<<-- Originally posted by Matthew de Jongh : i HAVE posted to the forums and read every message i could find when i had a problem. it seems to me to be one of those forums where people only post problems and never reply to help out other people. snip matthew -->>> Sorry it seems that way to you, Matthew. I have had a completely opposite experience. Even to the point of being invited to bring my computer system into Canopus in San Jose where they spent hours solving the problem. Which wasn't theirs, by the way, it was a bad design on a SCSI controller on a motherboard. They GAVE me a PCI SCSI controller to solve the problem. And every time I've asked for help on the forum, I've received it. From Moderators, members, and Canopus employees. A brief run through the forums wouldn't leave the impression that there is no help available. It's the main reason the forums exist. Any forum for that matter. However, as you know, there are problems that cannot be fixed. Bad computer components, bad choice of components, and as we know, a bad set of drivers from Canopus for PPro. Still, it remains the most stable and long-lived editing system out there for me. I grew up on RexEdit (does 95+ % of everything I need to do in an NLE) and have now moved on to Edius and it's improvements. I haven't lost more than 5 days of editing to problems caused by Canopus products in the past 6 years. I tried FAST, Pinnacle & Matrox before I found Canopus. They all had major hardware and software problems and absolutely no support. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

February 3rd, 2004, 02:17 PM	#73
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : i have to agree with the negative comments towards canopus...canopus is based out of japan, almost all the applications except for imaginate are written in japan in my eyes the US office is nothing more then distribution center with tech support...and have a hard time getting through users frustrations to Japan, or maybe the mother ship is just not listening... --------------------------------- Absolutely correct. Has been from the first with them. It is very typical of Japanese companies. Engineering-driven, no marketing to speak of. ---------------------------------- canopus ruled the roost until fcp, avid, edition and matrox joined canopus on the software side of the software vs hardware debate... today canopus has shifted focus to edius a new nle, which i like...it is however missing quite a few things... the ppro drivers are buggy and a new date for working drivers is non-existant ----------------------- Woa. PPro drivers are not a part of Edius just because they were released about the same time. Don't tar Edius with the PPro debacle. ------------------------- ...canopus software does not talk to each other, imaginate does not work with edius and edius has trouble reading some files from procoder (although i'm told that will change with 2.0 shipping next week) ----------------------- Don't we hope! I agree with everything else you say from here on so to save space I won't repeat it. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

February 2nd, 2004, 02:16 PM	#61
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	i keep thinking about ditching my canopus raptor rt2 and getting the matrox rtx-100 i have had canopus products for years now and they have the same issues they have always had. their site sucks and you have to stay on hold for 25-40 minutes to get a a tech support person. i actually solved a few of my problems by reading some tech support documents on the matrox site! i wasn't even going to get canopus the last time around but a client gave me a shrink wrapped raptor rt2 card and i couldn't exactly exchange it. matthew

February 3rd, 2004, 12:05 AM	#63
Matthew de Jongh Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: sounthern maine Posts: 344	i HAVE posted to the forums and read every message i could find when i had a problem. it seems to me to be one of those forums where people only post problems and never reply to help out other people. i've had canopus stuff since the original raptor. recently i found out that there capture utility flat out doesn't work with the dvx-100a and i called their support and they didn't even want to write up a note. the premiere capture works just fine. they just seem like a company who isn't focused. matthew

February 3rd, 2004, 12:59 AM	#64
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	i have to agree with the negative comments towards canopus...canopus is based out of japan, almost all the applications except for imaginate are written in japan in my eyes the US office is nothing more then distribution center with tech support...and have a hard time getting through users frustrations to Japan, or maybe the mother ship is just not listening... canopus ruled the roost until fcp, avid, edition and matrox joined canopus on the software side of the software vs hardware debate... today canopus has shifted focus to edius a new nle, which i like...it is however missing quite a few things... the ppro drivers are buggy and a new date for working drivers is non-existant...canopus software does not talk to each other, imaginate does not work with edius and edius has trouble reading some files from procoder (although i'm told that will change with 2.0 shipping next week) canopus has very outdated filter system, that is keyframe less, i always found it cumbersome to use in premiere...the cc tools are probably the worst of the bunch with no secondary color correction and a painful i/o that is not refined... basically canopus loss any kind of market leadership and in my eyes stained that insignia of quality with recent releases... on the other hand the grass is not always greener, matrox has it's share of issues, as it is still very much a picky piece of hardware, i do however like what they have done with intergration with ppro, and all the extras you get... one thing that matrox understands that canopus does not is i/o, matrox has a simplfied i/o for filterd and dialog boxes...old pros may not recognize this but newbies are a bit thrown off by look canopus gives you... matrox also gives you alpha support for filters, transitions n such...some folks (corp video types) consider that a staple, canopus has yet to see value in this, and gives very little alpha support... my advice at this point is stay simple, ppro is much improved, avid pro is great, edition (once learned) is limitless, and even the demo of edius 2 i used is great...so today you pretty much only need a fast pc a 1394 card.... at nab we will see the dawn of the hd editing cards, maybe even sonys vegas hardware card....

February 3rd, 2004, 01:08 AM	#65
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Let's see how DVStorm2 rates at http://www.videoguys.com.... Oops, it didn't make their Top 10 list. :-((

February 3rd, 2004, 01:17 AM	#66
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Let's see how DVStorm2 rates at http://www.videoguys.com.... Oops, it didn't make their Top 10 list. :-(( -->>> i have a hard time trusting the 'public' opinions of those that sell the products they are talking about... i will say that gary knows his stuff, and in this case he is probably right...

February 3rd, 2004, 01:46 AM	#67
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I was just curious about the rating there, since I'm not aware of any other sites that rate NLE software with a Top 10 each year. If you know of other sites that do this, please post their links so I can do a little reading. Thanks.

February 3rd, 2004, 02:32 AM	#68
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : I was just curious about the rating there, since I'm not aware of any other sites that rate NLE software with a Top 10 each year. If you know of other sites that do this, please post their links so I can do a little reading. Thanks. -->>> frank are you still running win 3.1? it may be tough to get you that list... its hard to compare nles on a whole because it depends what your needs are, just like cams, if you need a shoulder mount an mx5000 just won't do... on the windows side there was a comparison done by media mag you can check it out here: http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/R...ArticleID=8066

February 3rd, 2004, 03:32 AM	#69
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I'm still running WIN 3.11 on the computer I do most of my stuff on, including connecting here. (I own a few computers.) Also, I've got a new one comming soon, which my buddy is building between his 2 jobs. My NLE needs? None at the moment, but I can always play and learn. Thanks for the link. Yes, I like WIN 3.11 a lot, and DOS even better for my games; and I do have WIN 98 on one of my 'puters, but that's not that new either. :-))

February 3rd, 2004, 07:11 PM	#74
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	'today canopus has shifted focus to edius a new nle, which i like...it is however missing quite a few things... the ppro drivers are buggy and a new date for working drivers is non-existant" your right poorly written, just to reconfirm.. edius GOOD ppro drivers BAD

February 4th, 2004, 03:31 PM	#75
Mike Gunter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalispell, Montana Posts: 164	Hi, I'm fairly close to the issue and can state with clarity that although Canopus has issues with PremPro, they're being fixed. A new driver release should happen very soon. It seems fair to also point out that while the PremPro drivers are troublesome for many, there are many of users who use them without a hitch. __________________ Mike Gunter VideoTidbits.com