Confusion over Edius 5.01 project settings.

[Ronnie Martin]

Confusion over Edius 5.01 project settings.

When I got my latest editor it came with a preset for HDV and it was 1440x1080 29.97p over 59.41

I have been shooting for the past year with a Sony EX-1/3 (and Hvr 270U) set at the SP setting in the camera of 1080/60i. However my settings in Edius have been 1440x1080 29.97p over 59.41. Is this wrong??? Am I asking Edius to convert the HDV interlaced setting in the EX to progressive?

Sorry to post such a simple basic question but it may be the source of some of my problems. One is the artifacts that I get when down converting to SD and the other Edius not displaying as much “real time” as before.

Thanks folks.... sometimes the simplest questions are the source of a problem.

I posted this question on the Edius forum with out an answer except to change my shooting settings to 720p 60 for the action shots that I shoot in dirt racing.

Am I not correct in shooting action footage at night in low light at 1440x 1080i?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

Ronnie Martin
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BTW I have been hoping over 2 years now for a simple smooth way for down convert from HD to SD without the artifacts from within Edius. Has any progress been made on this?

[Ervin Farkas]

In order to answer this, we should know what format exactly the EX cameras shoot... not everyone around here owns one...

Might be a better idea to ask on the EX forum. Once you know the EXACT format shot by your cam, best practice is to choose a video project with those exact parameters.

[Vaughan Wood]

Hi Ronnie,

I have been watching your posts about downconverting ever since you started but have felt unable to help as I live in PAL land and therefore what I say may not be relevent.

(I do use two EX 1's).

However, all the weddings and most dance concerts (and Australian Rules Football) I do downconvert extremely well and I get lots of comments from my clients about the exceptional quality.

The only time I get really stuck is one of the theatres we film in has a wide white strip painted across the stage, which twitters continuously on the wide camera which looks down on the stage, and even resizing using virtual dub did not fix it.

However, continual reading of the EX forums has lead me to set up the cameras (we shoot in SP mode) not with detail off as some do, but turned down to (-7 or -10) and then edit in 1440 and make a Canopus HQ, put it into a SD project and then MPEG it out gives excellent results.

For Raw footage just MPEGing from a HDV timeline seems to give similarly really good results using Edius 5 encoder, it seems to give a slightly softer, less likely to twitter image than Procoder in Edius 4.

Whenever I visit that troublesome theatre I turn down the detail to -15 on the wide camera, and it makes the twittering go away completely ( although I have to be careful as then the two cameras don't match as well).

I now realize that different TVs also react different to the footage, and my Sony Bravia 20" re-scaling isn't the best, and other people don't see it as much as I do.

As I now seem to see line twitter on many programs on TV, it seems people are more accepting of it too, as most programs are made in HD, but certainly the combination of using less detail and Edius 5 encoder has made the problem 90% go away.

Hope this helps,

Cheers, Vaughan

[Ervin Farkas]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Martin

I have been shooting for the past year with a Sony EX-1/3 (and Hvr 270U) set at the SP setting in the camera of 1080/60i. However my settings in Edius have been 1440x1080 29.97p over 59.41. Is this wrong??? Am I asking Edius to convert the HDV interlaced setting in the EX to progressive? *** BTW I have been hoping over 2 years now for a simple smooth way for down convert from HD to SD without the artifacts from within Edius. Has any progress been made on this?

I just looked up the specs on the EX1 and I think YOU ARE indeed using the wrong setting, forcing Edius to deinterlace at ingest, which is not the right time. Best practice is to edit with a setting identical to your source footage, and only downconvert to standard def AFTER all the editing is done.

I think you should use the 1440x1080/59.94i setting instead. (I suppose you're talking about the 1440x1080/29.97p setting as I don't see the one you mention, 1440x1080 29.97p over 59.97i, there is no such project setting in Edius 5.01).

I just watched a half hour video I shot with a Z1 set to HDV (which is basically the same quality as the EX1 in SP, 1440x1080/60i) and burned to SD DVD after editing. It is an incredibly smooth, clean picture on my 57" HDTV - so I am not sure what kind of issues you might have with downconverting.

As far as I'm concerned, Canopus has solved all of the downconvert issues briliantly!

[Ronnie Martin]

Thanks guys for your posts. Part of my problem is that it is the rule not the exception that I have a horizontal line in my footage. I shoot mainly dirt racing video and in every shot there is a speaker line or light pole line or fence line that is horizontal. I also shoot a good bit of church production where I am shooting the outside of a brick building. Regardless of my setting on the camera whether it is the EX-3, Hrv270, or the Z1, the twitter is there. It is most noticeable with the EX-3, a little less with the HRV 270 and somewhat less with the Zu1. With all three cameras regardless of the setting when I change the setting in Edius from HD to SD the twitter and stair stepping on horizontal lines becomes evident. I know that a part of my problem with this is my perception. I guess if I had never seen the video on the HD monitor I would not be so sensitive about it. However, when I look back at the footage that I shot in with my SD (DSR 500, DSR 250, PD170) cameras, the resultant DVD looked much better. We have sold all our cameras and replaced them with HD cameras. "Blu Ray at a decent price for me would solve the problem. Most likely that is why no one seems to concentrate on the problem.

If you really want to see it, do the "brick building" test. With your camera set at HDV setting 1440x1080i, Zoom all the way in on a brick building from at least 100-200 feet away, adjust you focus carefully then come all the way wide at a slow rate. View the footage on your HD monitor from the Edius timeline. Export the timeline as a Canopus HQ fine file and place it back in Edius with a SD setting and see what happens to the bricks on the building. Before you start your encoding for the DVD, you will see the twitter on the bricks and it does not get better when you compress it again for DVD authoring. If you shoot something like a shelf that has a horizontal high contrast chrome edge, and then down convert it will look pretty bad. In all cases it will look great in HD. I am not talking about the loss of sharpness and loss of resolution when we go from HD to SD. It is the stair stepping or twitter that appears.

I promise that I will not post on this again. Since it seems that I am the only one with the problem, I will just keep on shooting and wait for Blu Ray to have a price point where we can use it with our projects. It is certainly not my intent to be negative about my Editing platform (Edius). I have been with Canopus/Edius/GrassValley since the company began in the early 90’s. My first machine was a Rex M1 with rex Edit 1.0. Even my socks now say Edius/GV.
Every time I have demoed another platform I have always stuck with Edius and will continue to do so. I just see this as a golden opportunity for Edius/GV.

Thanks so much for your input. I appreciate all the super advice and help that is available from the people on all the forums. .... You guys are the Best!

Take care,

Ronnie Martin
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[Ron Evans]

Hi Ronnie
You probably saw my posts on the Canopus Forum. I have seen this twittering a few times on my theatre videos but not frequently. I can reproduce it when needed so the issue is there. I have tried all the software I have ( Vegas PRo8, CS3, etc) and Edius stands up really good compared to them. However the best downconvert is using VDub ( Anton has instruction on his site)which is fortunately another step in the process but does give the best results so far. My first choice is TMPGenc and if I have the problem go to VDub. I think the problem is too much detail in an interlace HD stream for the scaler to manage into an SD interlace stream. This would not be a problem for a progressive stream. For what you do I would think a 1280x720P60 would be a better format for the fast motion and SD downconverting.

Ron Evans

[Ronnie Martin]

Thanks Ron I will give it a try....

Ronnie