Intermediate codec poll at DVinfo.net

Jad Meouchy · April 17th, 2007, 01:39 PM

As I continue my desperate search for a good intermediate HD codec (besides Cineform), I'm hoping to build a list of the other options.

-Lagarith
-HuffyUV
-Alparysoft

I'm using Lagarith at the moment for archival and editing, but my computer cannot play back a single stream in realtime. So I am looking for something a little bit more efficient. Cineform is the obvious choice, but I'd like to stick to free tools, preferably open source.

What is everyone else using?

Steven Gotz · April 17th, 2007, 01:51 PM

Good luck. There are no good intermediate codecs other than Cineform, or we would have heard of them. In fact, I have not even heard of any moderately decent ones.

The problem is not lossless archiving. Those codecs exist. The problem is the ability to play it back while editing without rendering first.

Cineform may eventually get competition, but I haven't seen it yet.

Ron Evans · April 17th, 2007, 02:54 PM

Edius HQ. Realtime Edius Pro editing.

Ron Evans

Jad Meouchy · April 17th, 2007, 05:04 PM

I will check out that Canopus solution. That is the one I haven't looked into yet, though it is also far from free.

What about Mainconcept's MPEG Pro?

Steven Gotz · April 17th, 2007, 06:07 PM

Ah. Yes. I forget about Edius and Axio because I think of them as complete systems.

MainConcept is not an intermediate codec. It merely allows you a better native editing experience.

Jad Meouchy · April 17th, 2007, 06:29 PM

I use a two-stage editing process from run-and-gun shoots, so Mainconcept could come in handy for the first stage when quickly cutting up the raw footage into labeled pieces and rendering to the intermediate.

Maybe I will just cave in and buy cineform. Then again, the money I spend on cineform could be spent on hardware, which may be a more cost effective solution. I'm not sure I can depreciate software..

On another note, I think I posted this in the wrong forum. Sorry about that.

Ron Evans · April 17th, 2007, 06:34 PM

For the price of Cineform you can get Edius Pro4 including the HQ intermediate codec. All realtime. YOu can always upgrade to Broadcast if you want XDCAm and Panasonic support for the proffesional formats. I have DVRaptor RT2 hardware and this gives realtime output to DV tape from the timeline no rendering. Edius has its little issues but it is FAST. For careful keyframe control I would use Vegas but most of the time for me its Edius just for the speed.

Ron Evans

Dek Rypter · April 18th, 2007, 07:40 AM

I downloaded the PIC MJPEG codec (from Pegasus Imaging) several years ago. It was free at the time, but I'm not sure if that still counts. It's really fast (realtime playback/capturing) and supports 4:2:2 colourspace but it's not lossless like huffy

Wes Vasher · April 18th, 2007, 08:04 AM

QT Photo JPEG is the poor man's intermediate. 75% quality and above will give you 4:2:2 and 100% will give you 4:4:4 capability. The file sizes are small and playback is smooth. It's not an ideal solution but it's better than nothing, not much room for color work and adjustments.

Ken Hodson · April 18th, 2007, 07:47 PM

Sheervideo by bitjazz. HQ, very fast and good compression size. Also can do 10 bit if you want to bring your work into AE.

Jad Meouchy · April 19th, 2007, 01:40 AM

Thanks for all the good suggestions. After reading more about Canopus, it appears to be superior to Cineform. I will check out SheerVideo.

Ron Little · April 20th, 2007, 07:50 AM

On Windows, Blackmagic's full resolution (1920x1080) professional quality compressed HD codec can capture JPEG AVI files in real time

Thomas Smet · April 20th, 2007, 10:06 AM

Yes try the Blackmagic jpeg codec. It is free and all you have to do is download the Intensity 1.3 drivers to get the codec. The quality is pretty good for normal footage and is realtime even on some of my slower systems.

Cineform of course will be slightly higher quality but then again it costs money. If you wait a little bit for Cineform Neo the HDV version only costs $250.00 so it isn't like you could buy a lot of hardware at that cost anyway.

April 17th, 2007, 01:39 PM	#1
Jad Meouchy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 663	Intermediate codec poll As I continue my desperate search for a good intermediate HD codec (besides Cineform), I'm hoping to build a list of the other options. -Lagarith -HuffyUV -Alparysoft I'm using Lagarith at the moment for archival and editing, but my computer cannot play back a single stream in realtime. So I am looking for something a little bit more efficient. Cineform is the obvious choice, but I'd like to stick to free tools, preferably open source. What is everyone else using? __________________ software engineer

April 17th, 2007, 01:51 PM	#2
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Good luck. There are no good intermediate codecs other than Cineform, or we would have heard of them. In fact, I have not even heard of any moderately decent ones. The problem is not lossless archiving. Those codecs exist. The problem is the ability to play it back while editing without rendering first. Cineform may eventually get competition, but I haven't seen it yet. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

April 17th, 2007, 05:04 PM	#4
Jad Meouchy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 663	I will check out that Canopus solution. That is the one I haven't looked into yet, though it is also far from free. What about Mainconcept's MPEG Pro? __________________ software engineer

April 17th, 2007, 06:07 PM	#5
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Ah. Yes. I forget about Edius and Axio because I think of them as complete systems. MainConcept is not an intermediate codec. It merely allows you a better native editing experience. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

April 17th, 2007, 06:29 PM	#6
Jad Meouchy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 663	I use a two-stage editing process from run-and-gun shoots, so Mainconcept could come in handy for the first stage when quickly cutting up the raw footage into labeled pieces and rendering to the intermediate. Maybe I will just cave in and buy cineform. Then again, the money I spend on cineform could be spent on hardware, which may be a more cost effective solution. I'm not sure I can depreciate software.. On another note, I think I posted this in the wrong forum. Sorry about that. __________________ software engineer

April 17th, 2007, 02:54 PM	#3
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Edius HQ. Realtime Edius Pro editing. Ron Evans

April 17th, 2007, 06:34 PM	#7
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	For the price of Cineform you can get Edius Pro4 including the HQ intermediate codec. All realtime. YOu can always upgrade to Broadcast if you want XDCAm and Panasonic support for the proffesional formats. I have DVRaptor RT2 hardware and this gives realtime output to DV tape from the timeline no rendering. Edius has its little issues but it is FAST. For careful keyframe control I would use Vegas but most of the time for me its Edius just for the speed. Ron Evans

April 18th, 2007, 07:40 AM	#8
Dek Rypter Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 25	I downloaded the PIC MJPEG codec (from Pegasus Imaging) several years ago. It was free at the time, but I'm not sure if that still counts. It's really fast (realtime playback/capturing) and supports 4:2:2 colourspace but it's not lossless like huffy

April 18th, 2007, 08:04 AM	#9
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	QT Photo JPEG is the poor man's intermediate. 75% quality and above will give you 4:2:2 and 100% will give you 4:4:4 capability. The file sizes are small and playback is smooth. It's not an ideal solution but it's better than nothing, not much room for color work and adjustments. __________________ Clips \| Stills

April 18th, 2007, 07:47 PM	#10
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Sheervideo by bitjazz. HQ, very fast and good compression size. Also can do 10 bit if you want to bring your work into AE. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

April 19th, 2007, 01:40 AM	#11
Jad Meouchy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 663	Thanks for all the good suggestions. After reading more about Canopus, it appears to be superior to Cineform. I will check out SheerVideo. __________________ software engineer

April 20th, 2007, 07:50 AM	#12
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	On Windows, Blackmagic's full resolution (1920x1080) professional quality compressed HD codec can capture JPEG AVI files in real time

April 20th, 2007, 10:06 AM	#13
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Yes try the Blackmagic jpeg codec. It is free and all you have to do is download the Intensity 1.3 drivers to get the codec. The quality is pretty good for normal footage and is realtime even on some of my slower systems. Cineform of course will be slightly higher quality but then again it costs money. If you wait a little bit for Cineform Neo the HDV version only costs $250.00 so it isn't like you could buy a lot of hardware at that cost anyway.