Have the filmmakers settled on a favorite? HVX200, XL H1, or HD100?

Richard Alvarez · January 5th, 2007, 07:42 PM

Dylan, the word "better" is indeed... never used in your original post. The word you used was "winner" as in "Clear Winner". Curiously, you have left this an undefined term or phrase. Hence, your question is rhetorical and cannot be definitively answered.

To find the "Clear Winner" that your post asks for, you must qualify your definition. What constitutes, TO YOU, a 'clear winner'? The camera that sells the most? The camera the makes the most 'indy films'? The camera that makes the most 'documentaries'? That camera who's films win the most 'awards'? The camera whose adherents sing the loudest praise on this board?

I don't know what you mean by the questions, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. Not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to see if this is a rhetorical question posed in order to discuss the merits of each camera, or if you are looking for some quantitative datum that might exist in cyberspace: IE some sort of 'score card'/box score listing of achievements - from which a 'clear winner' may be determined?

Dylan Couper · January 6th, 2007, 10:59 AM

Hey Richard, a fair question!

I did mention at the bottom that I meant strictly in terms of film look, but here's a more interesting answer, and it includes the reason I asked....

If I had asked the same question this time two years ago (or arguably last year), the answer from the indie film community would have certainly been the DVX100. It emerged the clear winner (again, somewhat arguably) of the SD cams in that range, not in terms of what it was better at, but how it was percieved as THE camera to have for a film look, much like the XL1 (and PD150 to a lesser extent) was for several years before it.

Of course we know that the winner is not always the better of the choices. I don't believe the DVX was the better camera, but it was the winner of the race in the sense that most indie producers would specifically seek out camera ops or DOPs who owned it before any others. In Vancouver anyway, if you owned a DVX100 you'd get significantly more (double or more) the opportunity for work over owning a Canon or Sony. Perhaps I should have asked what was the hot camera in the indie film world rather than winner, as winner indicates a state of permanancy.

One of my main reasons for buying an HVX was it's marketability, it worked for the last year as people in Vancouver picked it as the new incarnation (I should say "new coming") of the DVX. Now I'm wondering that if as people in the rest of the world realize that the JVC and Canon are serious heavyweights, HDV isn't the devil, and the HVX isn't a mini-Varicam, one of the others has become the new hotness?

How's that? :)

Richard Alvarez · January 6th, 2007, 12:25 PM

Ummmm okaaayy... reading between your lines. I THINK what you're asking is "Which camera is more likely to get me hired?". It seems that you're looking for which camera is more 'asked for'?

Well, that might be a searchable datum. Some possible courses of action. Pick three or four 'hot' cities for indy filmmaking. Say, NY, Vancouver, LA, Austin, and yes my local San Francisco. Do a Craigslist search for film crew listings, for specific camera types? Catolouge the number of requests for each camera? Subdivide that between 'paid' and 'beer' budget requests? Do the same thing for Mandy.Com perhaps?

Nah... I'm not gonna do it. I've got a list ofther chores with the new year. But it might be an interesting excercise. I once did a comparitive search for NLE's in a similar fashion. FCP was the most 'desirable' editing skillset, but LEAST likely to get you PAID. AVID was next as 'desirable' and MORE likely to get you paid. (Most and Least meaning comparitive number of hits) You might turn up some sort of similar data?

Greg Boston · January 6th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Yeah Richard, I took Dylan's original question to be the 'most popular' camera in terms of people requesting or using it for film projects, paid or otherwise.

Your idea of culling data from Craigslist and Mandy might work pretty well.

I don't think the market has a clear winner in that regard because each of the cameras Dylan mentioned has strengths and weaknesses, depending on the nature of the project.

-gb-

Bill Pryor · January 6th, 2007, 02:20 PM

The thing is, it really doesn't matter because all the 1/3" chip cameras are closer together in quality and features than they are apart. All of them have their plusses and minuses, and anybody who's reasonably competent can do an equal job with any of them.

Richard Alvarez · January 6th, 2007, 02:41 PM

Plus, I suspect you will find posts that ask for 'Three chip HDV cams like the..."
insert name here. So they will take whatever cam you have on hand.

(I know when I scan craigslist, you see requests for "Panny DVX or Xl2 or other cams that can shoot 24p")

So the short answer is most likely, "No Dylan, there's no clear 'winner' yet."

Dylan Couper · January 7th, 2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

The thing is, it really doesn't matter because all the 1/3" chip cameras are closer together in quality and features than they are apart. All of them have their plusses and minuses, and anybody who's reasonably competent can do an equal job with any of them.

It doesn't matter to the quality of the film, no... but you'd be surprised (maybe) how many clients/producers only want to use a certain camera because their boss/brother/aunt/auto mechanic told them it was the camera all the cool kids use!

Richard, good point about scanning Craigslist and a better point about free vs. paid jobs. I'll take a good look.

January 6th, 2007, 10:59 AM	#17
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Hey Richard, a fair question! I did mention at the bottom that I meant strictly in terms of film look, but here's a more interesting answer, and it includes the reason I asked.... If I had asked the same question this time two years ago (or arguably last year), the answer from the indie film community would have certainly been the DVX100. It emerged the clear winner (again, somewhat arguably) of the SD cams in that range, not in terms of what it was better at, but how it was percieved as THE camera to have for a film look, much like the XL1 (and PD150 to a lesser extent) was for several years before it. Of course we know that the winner is not always the better of the choices. I don't believe the DVX was the better camera, but it was the winner of the race in the sense that most indie producers would specifically seek out camera ops or DOPs who owned it before any others. In Vancouver anyway, if you owned a DVX100 you'd get significantly more (double or more) the opportunity for work over owning a Canon or Sony. Perhaps I should have asked what was the hot camera in the indie film world rather than winner, as winner indicates a state of permanancy. One of my main reasons for buying an HVX was it's marketability, it worked for the last year as people in Vancouver picked it as the new incarnation (I should say "new coming") of the DVX. Now I'm wondering that if as people in the rest of the world realize that the JVC and Canon are serious heavyweights, HDV isn't the devil, and the HVX isn't a mini-Varicam, one of the others has become the new hotness? How's that? :) __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

January 5th, 2007, 07:42 PM	#16
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Dylan, the word "better" is indeed... never used in your original post. The word you used was "winner" as in "Clear Winner". Curiously, you have left this an undefined term or phrase. Hence, your question is rhetorical and cannot be definitively answered. To find the "Clear Winner" that your post asks for, you must qualify your definition. What constitutes, TO YOU, a 'clear winner'? The camera that sells the most? The camera the makes the most 'indy films'? The camera that makes the most 'documentaries'? That camera who's films win the most 'awards'? The camera whose adherents sing the loudest praise on this board? I don't know what you mean by the questions, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. Not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to see if this is a rhetorical question posed in order to discuss the merits of each camera, or if you are looking for some quantitative datum that might exist in cyberspace: IE some sort of 'score card'/box score listing of achievements - from which a 'clear winner' may be determined?

January 6th, 2007, 12:25 PM	#18
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Ummmm okaaayy... reading between your lines. I THINK what you're asking is "Which camera is more likely to get me hired?". It seems that you're looking for which camera is more 'asked for'? Well, that might be a searchable datum. Some possible courses of action. Pick three or four 'hot' cities for indy filmmaking. Say, NY, Vancouver, LA, Austin, and yes my local San Francisco. Do a Craigslist search for film crew listings, for specific camera types? Catolouge the number of requests for each camera? Subdivide that between 'paid' and 'beer' budget requests? Do the same thing for Mandy.Com perhaps? Nah... I'm not gonna do it. I've got a list ofther chores with the new year. But it might be an interesting excercise. I once did a comparitive search for NLE's in a similar fashion. FCP was the most 'desirable' editing skillset, but LEAST likely to get you PAID. AVID was next as 'desirable' and MORE likely to get you paid. (Most and Least meaning comparitive number of hits) You might turn up some sort of similar data?

January 6th, 2007, 02:05 PM	#19
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Yeah Richard, I took Dylan's original question to be the 'most popular' camera in terms of people requesting or using it for film projects, paid or otherwise. Your idea of culling data from Craigslist and Mandy might work pretty well. I don't think the market has a clear winner in that regard because each of the cameras Dylan mentioned has strengths and weaknesses, depending on the nature of the project. -gb-

January 6th, 2007, 02:20 PM	#20
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	The thing is, it really doesn't matter because all the 1/3" chip cameras are closer together in quality and features than they are apart. All of them have their plusses and minuses, and anybody who's reasonably competent can do an equal job with any of them.

January 6th, 2007, 02:41 PM	#21
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Plus, I suspect you will find posts that ask for 'Three chip HDV cams like the..." insert name here. So they will take whatever cam you have on hand. (I know when I scan craigslist, you see requests for "Panny DVX or Xl2 or other cams that can shoot 24p") So the short answer is most likely, "No Dylan, there's no clear 'winner' yet."