Decisions -- JVC HD100 or Panasonic HVX200?

[Jason Burkhimer]

nevermind...

[Jason Burkhimer]

Ive been a lurker(seldom poster) on these boards for a couple of months. Trying to gather as much info as I can about which HD camera to buy. I havent had any hands on time with either, and there is no where in my area(Va Beach, VA) that rents. From what I understand the, the JVCHD100 has a slightly higher res image, so that is a very attractive plus. The Panny, though, has more veratility with framerates and speed effects. The smmoth slow-mo is a very desirable feature for filming surfing. I do surf videography and event videography(weddings, grads, etc...) The HDV format seems like a less fussy format to work with(I use Sony Vegas and Connect HD) But as the P2 card system of the HVX200 becomes more affordable in the coming years, the "no tape" solution seems irresistable. Right now the panasonic, seems to be a little out of my price range after cards, hard drive, etc...

I know its hard to get unbiased advice from posting on a dedicated JVC board, so I also posting this on the Panasonic board. I hope that doesnt conflict with any terms of use with these boards.

Anyway, some advice from people with experience with one or both of these cams would be greatly appreciated! thx guys!

-burk

[Tim Holtermann]

Burk,

If having variable frame rates is important to you (60p mostly for slow mo) then the HVX would be the choice, but as you pointed out there are still issues with the P2 only workflow and other drawbacks to the camera.

The HD100 is what I own and after much research it was the better choice. It's just setup like cameras I've used in the past (it's not a "palm" camera), has true 720p resolution straight to tape (or hard drive), no pixel shifting mojo, etc.

BUT....If you can wait tell later in the year when the HD200 is released, you can have the 60p frame rate and all the other benefits of the HD100. In fact the new mpeg hardware in the HD200 looks very good. At NAB they had D5 HD material being convereted on the fly with this mpeg encoder and shown right next to the original material and it was very hard to see the difference so that is something to think about.

[Jason Burkhimer]

thanks for the quick reply Tim. The HD200 sounds interesting. Any indication of what kind of price it will debut at? Are there any other features tht are worth noting about the cam that you know of right now? If that camera releases at a decent price, that might be the way to go.

thx man!

-burk

[Paolo Ciccone]

Hi Jason.
What kidn of answer you expect from this forum? ;)
Seriously, when I considered the two cameras the HD100 seemed a no-brainer to me. The decision factors:

- True HD resolution. The Panasonic has a smaller sensor: 960 pixels. The HD100 delivers full 1280x720.
- Removable lens. More flexibility.
- Tape transport. When you need portability an inexpensive miniDV tape that you can carry around is a plus. The P2 might go donw in price but how much? And how soon? Price reduction is just speculation. I want to use the camera now. I can grab my HD100, hit the road with a box of tapes and I don't have to worry. I can still record excellent images.
- Overall ergonomics.
- True manual lens. Zoom and focus controls can be measured and used for repeatable performance. The Panasonic has a servo focus ring. This is, for me, a deal breaker.

Of course, all depends on the intended application. What is a no-no for me might be a non issue for you.

Good luck.

[Jason Burkhimer]

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

Hi Jason.
What kidn of answer you expect from this forum? ;)
Seriously, when I considered the two cameras the HD100 seemed a no-brainer to me. The decision factors:

- True HD resolution. The Panasonic has a smaller sensor: 960 pixels. The HD100 delivers full 1280x720.
- Removable lens. More flexibility.
- Tape transport. When you need portability an inexpensive miniDV tape that you can carry around is a plus. The P2 might go donw in price but how much? And how soon? Price reduction is just speculation. I want to use the camera now. I can grab my HD100, hit the road with a box of tapes and I don't have to worry. I can still record excellent images.
- Overall ergonomics.
- True manual lens. Zoom and focus controls can be measured and used for repeatable performance. The Panasonic has a servo focus ring. This is, for me, a deal breaker.

Of course, all depends on the intended application. What is a no-no for me might be a non issue for you.

Good luck.

I knew there would be some bias, but from what Ive seen, most people give each cam credit where credit is due.

The removable lens thing brings up another question:

I am considering buying an M2 adapter for whatever camera I get. We might try some scripted work, so I would like to be able to get some nice shallow DOF. How does pannys fixed lens system differ from JVC's bayonet mount system in regards to this? Is is easier to mount with JVC?

[Stephan Ahonen]

Hey, I was going to write that. Paolo stole my post. =(

[Jonathan Ames]

As usual, Paolo hit the ball out of the park. These are things that I not only looked at but were deciding factors in our selection of JVC of which we then purchased 6. We did side-by-side comparisons of all four sub-$10k cameras and the deciding factor for my company was lens interchangability, true 24 and workflow. Everyones all a twitter (don't ask me where that word came from!!!) about the possibility that JVC bites the dust. What's the worst thing that can happen; a hybrid HVX and GY 100 HD? I got a picture sent to me of just that and posted a note here that the Matsushita may be merging the two companies. Then I got responses asking me if I was kidding. Alas, on further inquiry, the photo was a hoax as I suspected which is why I didn't post the picture. But you know what? It might not be such a bad idea. I'd love to see the best of the Panasonic and the GY 100 or 250, which is little more than balsawood vaporware at this point, come together to form a real camera. Why they didn't do it before is beyond me but for me, if you took the two and put them together you'd have one heck of a sub-$10 camera. Of course I'd like to see a few people from JVC dissolve as well to be replaced with Panasonic's best and brightest who know what integrity is but that's not going to happen either.

[Jonathan Ames]

Sorry, forgot. As for the M2 thing, e-mail them directly and ask. I haven't met them but they're pretty smart fellows to bring the idea this far in the face of P&S Technix blowing them off and then having to come back and ask how they did that. Brian, James Hurd and Taylor I believe are at CineGear but as I said, e-mail them and I know they can answer that q.

[Jason Burkhimer]

thanks jonathan, and paolo. Its funny, I posted this exact same thread on the panny board, and nothing. JVC is coming into focus as the way to go.

we'll see!

-burk

[Paolo Ciccone]

Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen

Hey, I was going to write that. Paolo stole my post. =(

Sorry Stephen :)
Draw!

[Jonathan Ames]

You'll find that here, good or bad, you'll have everyone's best shot supported by evidence and not conjecture driven by blind allegiance. There are reasons we selected this particular camera and there are up and down sides to it like everything else. But on the whole, with the right education and understanding of the processes inherent in DV and HDV, you'll have better results with the JVC in most all circumstances than with the other cameras. Whether or not the same holds true for the 200 and 250 remains to be seen. It's why I believe Steven Mullen's book is so important and if you have a chance, you should pick one up irrespective iof what camera you have and especially if you're shooting the JVC. Colorspace and compression are the principle issues one must understand, along of course with light, to get what you see in your mind through image capture and editing and out onto the screen accurately and his treatment of these subjects is excellent.

[Ram Ganesh]

for your needs - HVX! (Since u shoot surfers and water sports)
- HVX has great slowmo
- HVX uses DVCPROHD - HDV codec will/might break when it sees waves and water :)
- HVX lens has auto focus and stability control

for my needs I choose HD100...

[Fredrik-Larsson]

What did you decide? I feel a bit like you...

[Brian Luce]

At least consider that the HVX is significantly more expensive than the HD100 once you factor in p2 cards.

Also consider that the hvx has short record times and archiving issues.

But the hvx is much more versatile and has better codec.