what pair to get at DVinfo.net

Spike Spiegel · February 27th, 2006, 01:38 PM

Hello everyone, i have a question that has been bugging me for a while. I plan on buying 2 HDV cameras, any brand, (i'm opting for a z1 and xlh1). The reason i'm not buying both of the same model, (2 xlh1s) is because of the lowlight possibility on a lot of the shooting areas. I know for a fact that the xlh1 shoots in 1080i at a res of 1920, but the z1 shoots at 1080i 1440 res.. Is it goingt o be difficult mixing and matching the cameras in post production with various resolutions, or is it not going to matter? Would it be better to just get two XlH1s in the long run? Any ideas? I'm new to the HDV workflow, i have an idea of how to accomodate post prod, but i'm wondering which pair of cameras I should opt for.Thanks

Dylan Couper · February 27th, 2006, 01:44 PM

If possible, always get two cameras with a matching "look". It'll make your life much easier in post-production.

Spike Spiegel · February 27th, 2006, 01:57 PM

i completely understand that, i've dealt with dv cameras mostly when it comes to matching the output. What i'm worried about in HDV, is, if we get a Z1 and a XLH1, in 1080i mode, wouldn't both cameras still have diff resolutions? Also, any xlh1 users, how is the lowlight capability? does it rival the z1?

Evan Donn · February 27th, 2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

I know for a fact that the xlh1 shoots in 1080i at a res of 1920, but the z1 shoots at 1080i 1440 res..

This doesn't sound right unless Canon is using a non-standard version of HDV - otherwise the resulting file from both cameras should be the same 1440x1080 resolution and should cut together reasonably well. Of course each camera is going to have a different 'look' as far as color and gamma is concerned, so making footage from the two look similar may be a bigger concern - but that doesn't really have anything to do with resolution.

Edit: Canon's literature on the camera specifies the standard 1440x1080 resolution to tape, so your information is likely wrong:

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...2152&pageno=16

Spike Spiegel · February 27th, 2006, 07:46 PM

yeah, i checked up on that, and looks like I was wrong. Thats good though, that means I dont' have to worry about mixing and matching pairs, except for the color/gamma detail. Now my question is: which HDV camera performs the best under low-light scenarios?

Chris Barcellos · February 27th, 2006, 08:28 PM

For what its worth:

Rating from Canon: 60i, 1/60 shutter speed = 7 lux; 30F, 1/30 shutter speed = 4 lux; 24F, 1/48 shutter speed = 6 lux

Rating from Sony: 3 lux @ 18db, F1.6, normal shutter

Robert M Wright · February 27th, 2006, 09:07 PM

Even if cost hadn't been a factor, I think I would still have chosen the FX1/Z1 over the H1, for the low light capability.

Spike Spiegel · February 27th, 2006, 10:31 PM

well I haven't bought the cameras yet, i'm still debating. I'm thinking the perfect scenario would be a z1 and a h1..

Ken Hodson · February 28th, 2006, 04:16 PM

From the HDV/P2 shoot-out, I thought that the Canon was the clear low light winner? And yes they both capture 1440 to tape (Canon does full 1980 from SDI) but the Canon holds far more detail then the Sony.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 28th, 2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

but the Canon holds far more detail then the Sony.

Working with both, I'd have to dispute the "far more." Does it offer greater detail? Yes. Far more? I guess it depends which is further, to New York or by bus.

Ken Hodson · February 28th, 2006, 09:57 PM

Just going off the HDV/P2 shoot-out Douglas. Sony was lowest detail of the bunch. Canon was the highest. Both at 1080i. JVC at 720p was second. As a note the tests were done with artificial detail settings turned to "off", and in doing so the Sony went extreemly soft.

Robert M Wright · February 28th, 2006, 11:48 PM

I'm not sure which camera is actually the better performer in low light. I've read conflicting accounts, so it is unclear to me which camera handles low light best (FX1/Z1 or H1), but from what I understand, the FX1/Z1 does pretty well, especially at holding down noise when gain is boosted (sounded like the safe choice in that regard).

Ken Hodson · March 1st, 2006, 12:09 AM

Robert -"but from what I understand, the FX1/Z1 does pretty well, especially at holding down noise when gain is boosted (sounded like the safe choice in that regard)."

Your quite right Robert. The Sony holds up very well in that regard. In that same (and only comparative) test I'm aware of, it clearly showed that the Canon held a large advantage in the low light catagory. I would be very interested in hearing of any referance to the contrary, if you have one.

Robert M Wright · March 1st, 2006, 12:25 AM

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least a couple posts here that allude to better low light performance from the FX1/Z1, but I'm not sure where I saw them. I'll keep my eyes open and if I see one again, I'll try to point it out for you. I haven't seeing anything akin to "I put them side by side and one clearly blows the other out of the water" or anything like that.

Spike Spiegel · March 1st, 2006, 12:32 AM

thanks for the info guys, right now the z1 is only a candidate because of its possible superior low light, thats the only reason i'm opting for a z1 and h1 rather than simply 2 xlh1s..

February 27th, 2006, 01:38 PM	#1
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	what pair to get Hello everyone, i have a question that has been bugging me for a while. I plan on buying 2 HDV cameras, any brand, (i'm opting for a z1 and xlh1). The reason i'm not buying both of the same model, (2 xlh1s) is because of the lowlight possibility on a lot of the shooting areas. I know for a fact that the xlh1 shoots in 1080i at a res of 1920, but the z1 shoots at 1080i 1440 res.. Is it goingt o be difficult mixing and matching the cameras in post production with various resolutions, or is it not going to matter? Would it be better to just get two XlH1s in the long run? Any ideas? I'm new to the HDV workflow, i have an idea of how to accomodate post prod, but i'm wondering which pair of cameras I should opt for.Thanks

February 27th, 2006, 01:44 PM	#2
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	If possible, always get two cameras with a matching "look". It'll make your life much easier in post-production. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

February 27th, 2006, 08:28 PM	#6
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	For what its worth: Rating from Canon: 60i, 1/60 shutter speed = 7 lux; 30F, 1/30 shutter speed = 4 lux; 24F, 1/48 shutter speed = 6 lux Rating from Sony: 3 lux @ 18db, F1.6, normal shutter __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 28th, 2006, 04:16 PM	#9
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	From the HDV/P2 shoot-out, I thought that the Canon was the clear low light winner? And yes they both capture 1440 to tape (Canon does full 1980 from SDI) but the Canon holds far more detail then the Sony. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

February 28th, 2006, 09:57 PM	#11
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Just going off the HDV/P2 shoot-out Douglas. Sony was lowest detail of the bunch. Canon was the highest. Both at 1080i. JVC at 720p was second. As a note the tests were done with artificial detail settings turned to "off", and in doing so the Sony went extreemly soft. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

February 27th, 2006, 01:57 PM	#3
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	i completely understand that, i've dealt with dv cameras mostly when it comes to matching the output. What i'm worried about in HDV, is, if we get a Z1 and a XLH1, in 1080i mode, wouldn't both cameras still have diff resolutions? Also, any xlh1 users, how is the lowlight capability? does it rival the z1?

February 27th, 2006, 07:46 PM	#5
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	yeah, i checked up on that, and looks like I was wrong. Thats good though, that means I dont' have to worry about mixing and matching pairs, except for the color/gamma detail. Now my question is: which HDV camera performs the best under low-light scenarios?

February 27th, 2006, 09:07 PM	#7
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	Even if cost hadn't been a factor, I think I would still have chosen the FX1/Z1 over the H1, for the low light capability.

February 27th, 2006, 10:31 PM	#8
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	well I haven't bought the cameras yet, i'm still debating. I'm thinking the perfect scenario would be a z1 and a h1..

February 28th, 2006, 11:48 PM	#12
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	I'm not sure which camera is actually the better performer in low light. I've read conflicting accounts, so it is unclear to me which camera handles low light best (FX1/Z1 or H1), but from what I understand, the FX1/Z1 does pretty well, especially at holding down noise when gain is boosted (sounded like the safe choice in that regard).

March 1st, 2006, 12:09 AM	#13
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Robert -"but from what I understand, the FX1/Z1 does pretty well, especially at holding down noise when gain is boosted (sounded like the safe choice in that regard)." Your quite right Robert. The Sony holds up very well in that regard. In that same (and only comparative) test I'm aware of, it clearly showed that the Canon held a large advantage in the low light catagory. I would be very interested in hearing of any referance to the contrary, if you have one. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

March 1st, 2006, 12:25 AM	#14
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	I'm pretty sure I've seen at least a couple posts here that allude to better low light performance from the FX1/Z1, but I'm not sure where I saw them. I'll keep my eyes open and if I see one again, I'll try to point it out for you. I haven't seeing anything akin to "I put them side by side and one clearly blows the other out of the water" or anything like that.

March 1st, 2006, 12:32 AM	#15
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	thanks for the info guys, right now the z1 is only a candidate because of its possible superior low light, thats the only reason i'm opting for a z1 and h1 rather than simply 2 xlh1s..