what pair to get

Spike Spiegel · March 1st, 2006, 11:35 PM

The show's premise is to explore the world one city at a time through it's cuisine. We are reworking our project website at the moment, but soon as its up I will post a link here.

On another note, what seems to be a good price for a new z1? I know BH has a pretty nice deal for the Z1 + the HDV deck with a rebate, but whats a good price for a single z1 (with nothing else added)

Robert M Wright · March 2nd, 2006, 12:21 AM

If you click on the "email me a price" B&H will send you an email virtually instantly. I seriously doubt you'll find another reputable dealer that sells significantly below the price they send you.

Spike Spiegel · March 2nd, 2006, 12:37 AM

yeah, i'm a big fan of BH, and I will most likely be supporting them. Anyway, the link to the project we are working on marketing is

http://www.craterlionproductions.com/destinationfood

The site doesn't explain too much about the show because we have a specially built version for interested networks etc.

Albert Rudnicki · March 2nd, 2006, 04:39 PM

I have shot and directed a DVD for Cavalia (Cirque with horses)
We've shot for 3 weeks, and used 4 sonys z1 and fx1, mini35 and canon h1.
The last one (Canon) has produced the best image in poor light conditions, but the clumsy zoom control and lack of lcd or high res viewfinder was a major drawback.
The process of color matching between the shots from those two cams was very painful.
When you place the shots on the timeline side by side you see a huge difference
(Avoid this if you can!)
I'll try to post some stills.

I am my self an owner of FX1 with all the accessories, and looking to get a second camcorder (mainly to get close-ups).
Since I am shooting often green screen my first pick is HVX, but because of my experience I'll probably end up getting another Sony, and keep on renting for the green.

That's my two cents
Albert Rudnicki
Director
www.ahproductions.com
www.yayofilms.com

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 2nd, 2006, 05:36 PM

Albert,
What makes the HVX your "first pick" for greenscreen?

Daniel Rudd · March 2nd, 2006, 07:28 PM

to spread these evaluations a bit further:

Recognizing some superior feature sets, would the experts agree that from an optics and image standpoint the z1 and fx1 are indentical? (or not)

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 2nd, 2006, 07:55 PM

On optics and electronics alone, the images are identical. However, the Z1 includes some electronic enhancements that do allow it to generate a superior image, which is why it is the cam chosen on the pro front vs the FX1

Albert Rudnicki · March 2nd, 2006, 09:36 PM

"What makes the HVX your "first pick" for green screen?"

I guess 4:2:2, dvcpro50, 720p is plenty of reasons to use it for chroma key.
Good optics is a plus.
I am not sure about 1080p, all that pixel shifting :)

As far as comparison between Z1 and FX1, we have shot with them side by side, and there is no difference in the image (both in 60i mode)

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 2nd, 2006, 09:45 PM

The pixel shifting is there regardless.
Bear in mind that with a horizontal imager of 540, you're missing out on a lot of color information, because that additional sample isn't really there. And in HD, 4:2:2 really doesn't actually apply (No matter whose cam we're discussing) as it's an SD standard.
So, with the lowered horizontal resolution, mathematically it's really about the same as 4:2:0. In part, I'm parroting what was demonstrated regarding HD compression from Poynton, but at the end of the day, it's pretty clear he's right.

Regarding the FX1 and Z1, if you set them both to auto mode, no special anything in the stream, this is so...they're identical. The DSP's however, which is what really determines how any of these cameras work whether it's JVC, Sony, Panasonic, or Canon, is what really counts. And the DSP's are not the same on the FX1 as the Z1.

Robert M Wright · March 3rd, 2006, 12:16 AM

Would it be correct to conlude that, for shooting wedding receptions, if camera price is not a consideration, the choice between shooting with an XL-H1 or an FX1/Z1 is not entirely a clear cut choice to make?

Also, has anyone directly compared the quality difference between using black stretch on a Z1 and shooting the identical scene without using black stretch on the Z1, then stretching black in post?

Spike Spiegel · March 3rd, 2006, 02:10 AM

since we were discussing the Z1, I had a quick question. Anyone use a wide angle adapter, the Sony VCL-HG0872 with their Z1? Is this wide angle lens suitable for this HD camera or is the lens made for miniDV cameras only?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 3rd, 2006, 08:21 AM

That particular lens is for the Z1/FX1, yes. I have the 16x9 product which is very similar in appearance, I have not compared the two. I noticed with the 16x9 product, I didn't see nasty vignetting/Barrel distortion and it looked great, so I bought it.

Spike Spiegel · March 3rd, 2006, 10:53 AM

Hmm, i'm a bit confused... You were comparing the wide angle with the 16:9 lens? Aren't they 2 completely different things?
Also, why would you need a 16:9 lens for the fx/z1 when they shoot in that mode natively...

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 3rd, 2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

Hmm, i'm a bit confused... You were comparing the wide angle with the 16:9 lens? Aren't they 2 completely different things?
Also, why would you need a 16:9 lens for the fx/z1 when they shoot in that mode natively...

http://www.bandprodigital.com/cgibin...s%3B16x9%20INC

The BRAND is 16x9

Spike Spiegel · March 3rd, 2006, 11:01 AM

aah, now that makes sense, thanks for clearing that up!

March 2nd, 2006, 05:36 PM	#35
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Albert, What makes the HVX your "first pick" for greenscreen? __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 2nd, 2006, 07:28 PM	#36
Daniel Rudd Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Muskegon, MI Posts: 213	fx1 & z1 to spread these evaluations a bit further: Recognizing some superior feature sets, would the experts agree that from an optics and image standpoint the z1 and fx1 are indentical? (or not) __________________ Daniel Rudd Digital Storyteller (Sony HDV, Aspect HD) Soundtrack Creation & Royalty Free Music Production www.stock20.com

March 2nd, 2006, 07:55 PM	#37
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	On optics and electronics alone, the images are identical. However, the Z1 includes some electronic enhancements that do allow it to generate a superior image, which is why it is the cam chosen on the pro front vs the FX1 __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 2nd, 2006, 09:45 PM	#39
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The pixel shifting is there regardless. Bear in mind that with a horizontal imager of 540, you're missing out on a lot of color information, because that additional sample isn't really there. And in HD, 4:2:2 really doesn't actually apply (No matter whose cam we're discussing) as it's an SD standard. So, with the lowered horizontal resolution, mathematically it's really about the same as 4:2:0. In part, I'm parroting what was demonstrated regarding HD compression from Poynton, but at the end of the day, it's pretty clear he's right. Regarding the FX1 and Z1, if you set them both to auto mode, no special anything in the stream, this is so...they're identical. The DSP's however, which is what really determines how any of these cameras work whether it's JVC, Sony, Panasonic, or Canon, is what really counts. And the DSP's are not the same on the FX1 as the Z1. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 3rd, 2006, 08:21 AM	#42
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	That particular lens is for the Z1/FX1, yes. I have the 16x9 product which is very similar in appearance, I have not compared the two. I noticed with the 16x9 product, I didn't see nasty vignetting/Barrel distortion and it looked great, so I bought it. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 1st, 2006, 11:35 PM	#31
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	The show's premise is to explore the world one city at a time through it's cuisine. We are reworking our project website at the moment, but soon as its up I will post a link here. On another note, what seems to be a good price for a new z1? I know BH has a pretty nice deal for the Z1 + the HDV deck with a rebate, but whats a good price for a single z1 (with nothing else added)

March 2nd, 2006, 12:21 AM	#32
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	If you click on the "email me a price" B&H will send you an email virtually instantly. I seriously doubt you'll find another reputable dealer that sells significantly below the price they send you.

March 2nd, 2006, 12:37 AM	#33
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	yeah, i'm a big fan of BH, and I will most likely be supporting them. Anyway, the link to the project we are working on marketing is http://www.craterlionproductions.com/destinationfood The site doesn't explain too much about the show because we have a specially built version for interested networks etc.

March 2nd, 2006, 04:39 PM	#34
Albert Rudnicki Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 52	I have shot and directed a DVD for Cavalia (Cirque with horses) We've shot for 3 weeks, and used 4 sonys z1 and fx1, mini35 and canon h1. The last one (Canon) has produced the best image in poor light conditions, but the clumsy zoom control and lack of lcd or high res viewfinder was a major drawback. The process of color matching between the shots from those two cams was very painful. When you place the shots on the timeline side by side you see a huge difference (Avoid this if you can!) I'll try to post some stills. I am my self an owner of FX1 with all the accessories, and looking to get a second camcorder (mainly to get close-ups). Since I am shooting often green screen my first pick is HVX, but because of my experience I'll probably end up getting another Sony, and keep on renting for the green. That's my two cents Albert Rudnicki Director www.ahproductions.com www.yayofilms.com

March 2nd, 2006, 09:36 PM	#38
Albert Rudnicki Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 52	"What makes the HVX your "first pick" for green screen?" I guess 4:2:2, dvcpro50, 720p is plenty of reasons to use it for chroma key. Good optics is a plus. I am not sure about 1080p, all that pixel shifting :) As far as comparison between Z1 and FX1, we have shot with them side by side, and there is no difference in the image (both in 60i mode)

March 3rd, 2006, 12:16 AM	#40
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	Would it be correct to conlude that, for shooting wedding receptions, if camera price is not a consideration, the choice between shooting with an XL-H1 or an FX1/Z1 is not entirely a clear cut choice to make? Also, has anyone directly compared the quality difference between using black stretch on a Z1 and shooting the identical scene without using black stretch on the Z1, then stretching black in post?

March 3rd, 2006, 02:10 AM	#41
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	since we were discussing the Z1, I had a quick question. Anyone use a wide angle adapter, the Sony VCL-HG0872 with their Z1? Is this wide angle lens suitable for this HD camera or is the lens made for miniDV cameras only?

March 3rd, 2006, 10:53 AM	#43
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	Hmm, i'm a bit confused... You were comparing the wide angle with the 16:9 lens? Aren't they 2 completely different things? Also, why would you need a 16:9 lens for the fx/z1 when they shoot in that mode natively...

March 3rd, 2006, 11:01 AM	#45
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	aah, now that makes sense, thanks for clearing that up!