Best camera for non-broadcast

Bob Zimmerman · February 3rd, 2006, 03:12 AM

They used to say HDV would have dropouts,etc. But I never hear people talk about dropouts. I think HDV is going to be pretty standard until super HDV comes out!!

Bob Grant · February 3rd, 2006, 07:04 AM

There's quite a large body of work being broadcast that's shot on Z1s, downconverted to DigiBeta it looks pretty stunning.

My vote goes for the Z1, sure it now isn't the best camera in its class, others can argue about which one is but in terms of bang for your dollar it cannot be beaten. Plus it's a known quantity and a very reliable camera, this isn't something that should be overlooked.

We've got 4 Z1s in pretty heavy use (they're hired out!) and so far not one failure or problem. We've had people who've never used a camera before get good results just leaving everything in auto and guys who know every trick in the book getting better results but even in "dummy" mode things don't look too shabby. Don't overlook the fact that the Z1 can also shoot 50i and 60i, that's meant I've been able to give work to guys in the USA when we needed 50i shot, all they needed was a Z1.

One other thing to bear in mind if making the jump from a PD150 to HDV, you'll now be shooting in 16:9 and that can require a bit of getting used to. Plus all the HDV cameras offer a lot more image control than the DV cameras with the possible exception of the DVX100, so you're going to have a lot more areas of image control to explore and the Z1 isn't a bad camera to cut your teeth on.

Douglas Call · February 3rd, 2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

There's quite a large body of work being broadcast that's shot on Z1s, downconverted to DigiBeta it looks pretty stunning.

Have you tried shooting with the Z1s in DV mode yet? I heard several times on the boards that the DV mode has problems. We're thinking of buying another PD-170 because we've had such good luck with its low light and picture quality in DVCAM mode.

Our ideal position would be to buy a camera that as good as the PD 170 and DVCAM recording capability and HDV capability when we want to move forward.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 3rd, 2006, 08:47 AM

MTV, American Chopper, Mythbusters, Monster Garage, Food Network, CNN, the award-winning Van Cliburn awards, HBO's "House Arrest" NCIS, CSI-Vegas, CSI-Miami, BTS King Kong, BTS Miami Vice, lots of Outdoor Channel, CMT Motocross, National Geographic, Sundance Channel, lots and lots of distribution and broadcast of this "non-broadcastable" format. Most of those shows are using Z1's, but I'm also aware of at least half a dozen A1's used as well.

Regardless of the format, there will always be naysayers. Content is king, that's rule one. The rest is up to the craftsman and his tools.

I've honestly only shot a few hours in DV mode with the Z1, mostly because I just can't see any reasoning to shoot in DV. Even if you're determined to edit as DV, shoot HDV and downconvert in camera to DV on capture. It still is much, much better than shooting DV. But with 3 Z1's, we've had no problems shooting DV in the little time we've shot DV.

Boyd Ostroff · February 3rd, 2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Call

Have you tried shooting with the Z1s in DV mode yet? I heard several times on the boards that the DV mode has problems.

I don't know where you've heard that, but I haven't. I have a VX-2000, a PDX-10 and a Z1. Since I want to work in 16:9, the VX-2000 simply isn't used anymore for anything but a deck. Of course the PD and VX will give you better results in low light (and I'm talking about REALLY low light here). But unless you just want 4:3 that's sort of irrelevant. THe PDX-10 does nice 16:9, but is even less sensitive in low light, and the image isn't quite as nice as the Z1.

I have used the Z1 quite a bit in DV/DVCAM mode, both for PAL and NTSC. I am really happy with the results. But don't just listen to me... the BBC is replacing their PD-150's with Z1's and using them in DVCAM mode:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=40832

Ken Hodson · February 3rd, 2006, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Call

I heard several times on the boards that the DV mode has problems. We're thinking of buying another PD-170 because we've had such good luck with its low light and picture quality in DVCAM mode.

The PD-170 is widely known to be a low light champ. This has nothing to do with its DVCAM mode which is identical to its DV mode. It has a lot to do with resolution, and as of yet no HDV cam does low light as good as certain SD cams.

Douglas Call · February 3rd, 2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

IBut don't just listen to me... the BBC is replacing their PD-150's with Z1's and using them in DVCAM mode:http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=40832

Thanks, I went over and read the BBC report on the Z1. It would appear to indicate that I'd be better off shooting with the Z1 in DVCAM mode especially in widescreen mode (since that how I shoot almost exclusively) than shooting with the PD 170. I guess the only place the Z1 will be a problem is in the nightclub venues where I shoot dance action and fashion shows where the ambient light is pretty poor (actually bad). My Frezzi Mini-Fill helps some but it only last so long before it dives. I also get backstage with the models frequently lighting there is kind of iffy to. I lug my 2/3" 16:9 DVCAM to bigger events and leave it a 6db gain and get everything with no noise. But I can't shoot dance scenes and quick action stuff cause I just can swing the big cam quick enough to track the action. I admit it I'm too old ;-(

February 3rd, 2006, 08:47 AM	#19
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	MTV, American Chopper, Mythbusters, Monster Garage, Food Network, CNN, the award-winning Van Cliburn awards, HBO's "House Arrest" NCIS, CSI-Vegas, CSI-Miami, BTS King Kong, BTS Miami Vice, lots of Outdoor Channel, CMT Motocross, National Geographic, Sundance Channel, lots and lots of distribution and broadcast of this "non-broadcastable" format. Most of those shows are using Z1's, but I'm also aware of at least half a dozen A1's used as well. Regardless of the format, there will always be naysayers. Content is king, that's rule one. The rest is up to the craftsman and his tools. I've honestly only shot a few hours in DV mode with the Z1, mostly because I just can't see any reasoning to shoot in DV. Even if you're determined to edit as DV, shoot HDV and downconvert in camera to DV on capture. It still is much, much better than shooting DV. But with 3 Z1's, we've had no problems shooting DV in the little time we've shot DV. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 3rd, 2006, 03:12 AM	#16
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	They used to say HDV would have dropouts,etc. But I never hear people talk about dropouts. I think HDV is going to be pretty standard until super HDV comes out!!

February 3rd, 2006, 07:04 AM	#17
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	There's quite a large body of work being broadcast that's shot on Z1s, downconverted to DigiBeta it looks pretty stunning. My vote goes for the Z1, sure it now isn't the best camera in its class, others can argue about which one is but in terms of bang for your dollar it cannot be beaten. Plus it's a known quantity and a very reliable camera, this isn't something that should be overlooked. We've got 4 Z1s in pretty heavy use (they're hired out!) and so far not one failure or problem. We've had people who've never used a camera before get good results just leaving everything in auto and guys who know every trick in the book getting better results but even in "dummy" mode things don't look too shabby. Don't overlook the fact that the Z1 can also shoot 50i and 60i, that's meant I've been able to give work to guys in the USA when we needed 50i shot, all they needed was a Z1. One other thing to bear in mind if making the jump from a PD150 to HDV, you'll now be shooting in 16:9 and that can require a bit of getting used to. Plus all the HDV cameras offer a lot more image control than the DV cameras with the possible exception of the DVX100, so you're going to have a lot more areas of image control to explore and the Z1 isn't a bad camera to cut your teeth on.