How should this site handle consumer HDV camcorders?

[Chris Hurd]

Hey folks, I'd like to have your input regarding the directions in which this site should or should not be moving. This year we'll see a number of consumer-level HDV camcorders coming out. What does that mean to HDV Info Net. Would you prefer to have dedicated discussion areas for these little cams, or would you rather "keep it professional" and save the bandwidth for the bigger gear. Ideally I really am not interested in attracting an audience of consumers, but I can certainly understand how a professional shooter would have a marked interest in the smaller stuff. Your feedback will help me decide how to proceed, from the standpoint of how the pros want to treat the consumer product line. Thanks in advance.

By the way this is only the second "official poll" ever in our history. I started the first just yesterday over in the RED Digital Cinema forum. Maybe we'll do this sort of thing more often!

[Evan C. King]

I don't see a huge point for it but if people feel a need to have it we should have it. At first they should all be grouped into one forum and after a year or so when that market has blown up give each manufactor one. Kind of like the Panasonic GS and Canon Optura forums but more generalized.

ex:
Panasonic HD Assistant
...and other Panasonic HD camcorders.

But I don't think there is a point until the content is there.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I voted for yes, manufacterer and model, but I didn't read it well, I think you only mean real consumer HDV camcorders? I thought you meant HDV in general.
(Not used to polls here ;-))

I can't take my vote back, but if you mean the real consumer level ones, maybe one for all of them, or maybe one per manufacturer, but not, like I posted, one for each model.

[Hse Kha]

I think there should be one forum for ALL other consumer HD (not just HDV) camcorders such as the Sanyo HD1, Sony HC3, etc... However the emphasis should be for professional use for them.

If there are numerous posts then you can create sub-forums for the most popular models.

I also think you should create a forum for XDCAM HD. If the Canon XL H1 at $9K and Panny P2 HD at $10K (with 2 P2 cards) are "affordable", then most certainly the XDCAM HD 300 at $16K is also affordable...

Just my humble opinion...

[Boyd Ostroff]

The only problem with the single forum concept is that it may be hard for people to to decide what constitutes a "consumer" camera. For example, would you consider the HC1 consumer and the A1 pro? If so, does it make more sense to have the HC1 stuff in the same forum as the A1 (as they currently are) since they are so similar? And of course we already do have the "general HD" camera forum....

[Jeff McElroy]

There is a massive library of interactive information to be found here, and it should be kept as accessible as possible for the people who need it most…the aspiring filmmakers, videographers, and the like.

The prosumer gear merits individual forums due to the quirks, idiosyncrasies, etc, apparent to each camera. They are all vastly different pieces of equipment, and as such, they are designed to be highly versatile. In contrast, the consumer brands are easymode-locked and marketed to the end of filming Billy’s soccer game. This is what the hc1, etc, was DESIGNED to do. In my mind, this... that is, what a piece of technology was designed to do, and then what in turn people actualy DO with it... constitute 'consumer' or 'prosumer' application.

I walked into the circuit city yesterday and saw an hc1 sitting in a nice little booth hooked up to a 20” HD display for people to play with. It was a revelatory moment… people are getting comparatively cheap HD acquisition at circuit city, worst-buy, Wal-Mart, and the like. The exclusivity is over, and, as they say, content is once again king (as if it wasn’t always).

The point is, in the next few years we are going to see tons of 1080i brand name camcorders. It would be pointless and futile to keep tabs on all of them, and would ultimately discredit the base user group already established here.

After all, you don’t want this place to turn out like the apple forums.
Check this out --it just doesn’t end!:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....400&tstart=135


PLEASE don’t let DVi turn into that.

[Cole McDonald]

I voted for one thread, but want you all to keep something in mind. I started coming to this forum as a potential customer for a video camera. The posts here gave me guidance when I was shopping for my first camera. I ended up purchasing a sub $1k camera which gives excellent footage when used correctly. I'll assume I'm not the intended target audience of this site based on this thread, but I absolutely use this site as a resource and have done so before the purchase of a higher level camera was even an option. I'm sure there are many more folks lurking out there who got here using google same as me. Be careful not to allienate them as they are starting out by creating a them vs. us schism.

"Ideally I really am not interested in attracting an audience of consumers"

I was a consumer when I came here first. Now I'm wrapping up principal photography on my first low-budget feature. Ultimately it's your board, but please consider the folks like myself who could be benefitting from the advice here.

Some of the recent responses to my posts have been answered with (mostly) the same answers...spend more on better equipment and all your woes will vanish. My budget (Money and time) doesn't allow me to consider purchasing new equipment, only working with what I have.

I have personally felt elitism on this board. With as few posts as I've made, that's a pretty rapid community response. It hasn't been heavy or blatant, but this community may want to make a decision whether it wants to be insular or accepting. It seems to me that this is the point at which you do that.

[Peter Ferling]

Chris, that would be good idea. I don't classify any particular DV camera as pro or consumer, as I've used fixed single-chip palm-size camcorders along with the larger 3-chip models. They are all tools in their own right, be it faking security cams, placed in harms way, or mounted in situations that would be othewise difficult for the heavier models.

I don't think you would draw large crowds of gawkers or inexperienced. We have that already.... kidding : ) Exposure to the pros would do these folks some good anyway.

[Jeff McElroy]

I have personally felt elitism on this board. With as few posts as I've made, that's a pretty rapid community response.

Well yeah, but it is nowhere NEAR as bad as it by all means should be. In fact, I would say that elitism is the exception here rather than the norm... but I feel you.

Now I'm wrapping up principal photography on my first low-budget feature.

...aaaand at least I would consider you a 'prosumer', if your work is done to a professional end, regardless of the technology employed (congragulations, btw). I just don’t see a real need or demand to have anything more than a singular thread… Questions associated with production in general, lighting, sound, NLE’s, and such things are already covered in their own respective forums.

But, definitely, alienation is the last thing anyone wants. This place’s allure remains a ‘down to earth’ atmosphere… which has been amazingly maintained despite its considerable size.

Exposure to the pros would do these folks some good anyway.
Exactly why I am here!

Okay, that is enough from me on this issue. :)

[Robert M Wright]

I'd like to see all HDV camcorders covered for now. At some point, I think it will make sense to draw a line, but not yet.

[Chris Barcellos]

From what I have seen of this forum, its spirit is in creatve people doing things with gear that no one envisioned. It should be open to all comers...

[Jack D. Hubbard]

I concur with Peter. Cameras are tools; some are basic, some very sophisticated. But it's not just a question of talking about the hardware, but how creatively it is used. One forum would put all that together.

[Fredrik-Larsson]

I voted for one forum per manufacturer. If one specific camera gets a lot of posts a new forum around that model should be made. I think that's the policy here anyway? If a pro model has a similar consumer version like Z1/FX1 and A1/HC1 then it's good to bundle them together.

[Kevin Shaw]

I voted for one forum for each manufacturer, because otherwise it gets too complicated to know where to look for things. It might seem odd to some to have the HC1 discussed in the same forum as the XDCAM HD, but I can envision situations where a professional might use both, and it could be educational to consumers to see posts about the advanced gear. Hopefully people will use subject lines for their topics which indicate whether they have a basic or advanced question, and then everyone can read the threads which are useful to them.

[Graham Jones]

Please strive for minimalism, not just in relation to HD/V but across the board.

One can always use the 'search' function to compile a list of posts pertaining to a specific model.