How should this site handle consumer HDV camcorders?

Wayne Morellini · February 28th, 2006, 02:03 AM

I accidentally found out about this poll, goign through a thread, what about a note on top of pages about current polls?

I agree, no elitism, or base level consumerism either.

I voted:
Yes, just one forum for all consumer HDV cams.

But the option that I have suggested before is not there:
Forums by type of camera and use. With no camera getting it's own forum unless it is a very good work camera/ or popular. This will keep too many cameras from being on one group, i.e:

Quote:

Mpeg4/H264 Flash/Drive Cameras:

- Consumer palm cameras
For things like the Sanyo HD1 that have limited use at work.

- Work quality Palm cameras
For all other cameras that have work quality compression (like the future H264 cameras).

- Work quality camcorder cameras
For bigger cameras.

HDV HD Cameras:
(includes Palm HDV, I suspect there will not be enough to warrant there own section).

- HD Consumer camcorders

- Work quality HD Consumer camcorders

Others:
- Special use cameras (Bullet, Slow motion etc)

So what do you think?

Jeff DeMaagd · March 8th, 2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole McDonald

I have personally felt elitism on this board. With as few posts as I've made, that's a pretty rapid community response. It hasn't been heavy or blatant, but this community may want to make a decision whether it wants to be insular or accepting. It seems to me that this is the point at which you do that.

I don't consider myself a "pro" guy in the least bit, but compared to other professions and other special interests, I've appreciated this crowd. I know there is room for improvement, but there will always be petty disagreements and honest disagreements gone a bit overboard. Still, I've found this crowd to have a lot of genuinely helpful and civil people, with only a minimum of people with a negative agenda. It is a market that I am proud to serve in my own little way, from hobbyists to pros and trainers.

Anyway, what I would probably suggest is maybe one catch-all consumer forum, and break off subforums for models that seem to be popular enough. It is probably not good to have a model-dedicated forum with only a dozen threads, that is too isolated to me.

Andrew Khalil · March 8th, 2006, 10:13 AM

I originally voted for the first one, but in reality, I don't think it's the right choice anymore because the line is kind of being blurred. I don't think there should be a seperate forum for each manufacturer, just group them all into one forum and title it "consumer HD" or something like that. I think we'll see a lot of new HD models aimed at consumers this year and while I think those looking for one of those cameras shouldn't in any way be excluded, I do think maintaining a professional atmosphere around here will benefit those people as well as the pros or more advanced users currently here.

Graham Jones · March 8th, 2006, 11:59 AM

"It is probably not good to have a model-dedicated forum with only a dozen threads"

Mmm.. I can't imagine a forum at dvinfo.net with only a dozen threads.

If you're referring to the Sanyo HD1 forum, well, there will probably be more threads when the camera is officially released.

I take your overall point, though.

Kurth Bousman · March 8th, 2006, 12:31 PM

Chris - to me , your model for dv cameras worked quite well. Why change it ? I'd vote for a forum based on make. One for canon, one for panasonic etc. Then when a model takes off like the pd150 or dvx, you assign a separate forum. Seemed to work before. thanks Kurth

Bill Pryor · March 8th, 2006, 02:56 PM

Somebody mentioned an XDCAM area above,and it seems to me too that since P2 has a separate area as a recording format, XDCAM should also. That would cover both primary tapeless formats. And all the consumer stuff could be one thing, as others above have suggested--that seems logical to me too.

David Kennett · March 16th, 2006, 03:24 PM

I didn't vote, but I think the criteria should be how unique the product is. The Sanyo HD1 is so unique that pros might find a use for this camera. Consumer items are often a preview into the future of pro stuff.

I prpbably will get one soon. I love pocket stuff!

Chris Taylor · April 17th, 2006, 08:54 PM

I guess I would not be considered a pro :-) I don't do a lot of video (until now) the Sanyo is the first camera that makes me "want" to do video. I am primarily a Still guy I take well over 10,000 pics a year (its an obsession)

Until now video in my budgetary range was so unsatisfactory and I simply hated Mini DV (download my you know what 2 hours to move 2 hours of video no thanks)

the Resolution of the HD1 is mind Numbing and to think many of you are not impressed it boggles my mind to think of what WOULD impress you :-) wow

One thing I like about the sanyo is its size. I am drooling in anticipation of putting this thing inside of a rocket !

For years I have been using Hitachi MPEG10W's (they record direct to mpeg1) so the HD1 was a massive planetary scale upgrade for me !

I chose individual forum for each make model as I am really only interested in HD1 stuff since well thats what I have :-) hehe

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Wayne Morellini · April 18th, 2006, 01:05 AM

www.red.com
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=466239

;)

I think that it is important to have a general forum by type, apart from forums for the most popular cameras, as I have previously said. I think it keeps you aware of what new cameras and equipment is out there, apart from more people to mix with, advice and contrasting views.

If the Sanyo HD1EX was $200 I probably would buy it myself, a useful little thing to carry around ;).

Trond Saetre · May 13th, 2006, 02:37 AM

I think the HD/HDV forum should be based on the same model as the DV part.

Start with one general consumer HDV, and as time goes by and more thread are written, expand to separate subforums for different brands if needed.

John Godden · May 18th, 2006, 10:05 PM

Manufacturer specific might be specific enough. If those grow out of control then a further split might be needed.

Regards
JohnG

Mark Goldberg · September 13th, 2006, 12:44 PM

For now I am in favor of consumer HDV cameras being included. There are some applications where these cameras are a good logical choice. In the SD world, I teamed a Sony TRV-900, a classic camera design, with the professional PD-150. There was a pro model of the TRV900 called the PD100, but it only recorded DVCAM so runtime was shorter.

Similarly, I can see the upcoming FX7 as a good companion to my Sony Z1. The FX7 appears to include a stereo mike, while its pro equivalent appears not to.

I have found that a lot of new technology appears in the consumer line first.

Bill Pryor · September 13th, 2006, 01:03 PM

Good point. Also, a year or so after the TRV900 came out, I saw a PBS show that had been shot in China by students acting like tourists with TRV900s. And when the VX1000 came out, the producers of "Saltmen of Tibet" used it for that great documentary because they couldn't get pro gear into the country. However, it's probably a good idea to not deal with all the lower end consumer stuff. Maybe just keep it to nothing under a 1/3" chip camera, like the Sony A1U?

Roger Rosales · September 13th, 2006, 02:30 PM

Hey guys,

This is indeed a hard question to answer. When I first came to this site, it was because of my interest for the Canon XL1-S. I asked certain questions regarding this camera but it wasn’t until the XL2 that I finally bought (or rather, my father graciously bought for me) the XL2.

I didn’t come to this forum from a consumers point of view. I came to this forum because of professional level. I never came to this forum from the standpoint of “I want a cute little camera to film my family and make home movies!” No, I came because I wanted to expand my knowledge and build my career as a filmmaker.

At the same time I was looking for the cheapest, yet, valuable alternative (the GL2, etc) I don’t consider the GL2 a “Prosumer” camcorder. I consider it a high quality consumer camcorder, yet with proper care and proper practice could very well produce professional looking video. Of course, one had to go the extra mile(s) to achieve that look. With this in mind, I made the choice to delve deeper into camera operating and went with the XL2.

What I’m trying to say is, one never knows what will influence them to go a certain direction. The pro’s on this forum helped me sway to their direction and made me realize the value of going “balls out” not rather than later.

At the same time I don’t want what Jeff McElroy mentioned - an abundance of intolerable, clueless individuals. Consumer cams WILL bring them and we WILL get these questions:

“How do I upload my footage to my computer?”
“How do I import my clips into Windows Movie Maker?”
“How do I export my clips without it looking ugly and pixilated?”
“What’s this do…what’s that do…”

“What’s a camcorder?!”

My point is…Lets maintain a certain level of professionalism to prevent that from happening and lets be selective in which camcorders we make a dedicated forum to. Does a certain consumer camera have the potential of producing professional looking video? Or is it the equivalent of a JVC GR-D370 with the HDV brand on its title?

View Poll Results: Do you want dedicated areas for consumer HDV cams?
No, don't bother, professional gear only please	24	16.22%
Yes, just one forum for all consumer HDV cams	70	47.30%
Yes, dedicated forum for ea. manufacturer	36	24.32%
Yes, dedicated forum for ea. make & model	18	12.16%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

March 8th, 2006, 11:59 AM	#19
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	"It is probably not good to have a model-dedicated forum with only a dozen threads" Mmm.. I can't imagine a forum at dvinfo.net with only a dozen threads. If you're referring to the Sanyo HD1 forum, well, there will probably be more threads when the camera is officially released. I take your overall point, though. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

March 16th, 2006, 03:24 PM	#22
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	I didn't vote, but I think the criteria should be how unique the product is. The Sanyo HD1 is so unique that pros might find a use for this camera. Consumer items are often a preview into the future of pro stuff. I prpbably will get one soon. I love pocket stuff! __________________ Dave

September 13th, 2006, 12:44 PM	#27
Mark Goldberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Annapolis, Maryland Posts: 101	Consumer HDV cams For now I am in favor of consumer HDV cameras being included. There are some applications where these cameras are a good logical choice. In the SD world, I teamed a Sony TRV-900, a classic camera design, with the professional PD-150. There was a pro model of the TRV900 called the PD100, but it only recorded DVCAM so runtime was shorter. Similarly, I can see the upcoming FX7 as a good companion to my Sony Z1. The FX7 appears to include a stereo mike, while its pro equivalent appears not to. I have found that a lot of new technology appears in the consumer line first.

September 13th, 2006, 02:30 PM	#29
Roger Rosales Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	Hey guys, This is indeed a hard question to answer. When I first came to this site, it was because of my interest for the Canon XL1-S. I asked certain questions regarding this camera but it wasn’t until the XL2 that I finally bought (or rather, my father graciously bought for me) the XL2. I didn’t come to this forum from a consumers point of view. I came to this forum because of professional level. I never came to this forum from the standpoint of “I want a cute little camera to film my family and make home movies!” No, I came because I wanted to expand my knowledge and build my career as a filmmaker. At the same time I was looking for the cheapest, yet, valuable alternative (the GL2, etc) I don’t consider the GL2 a “Prosumer” camcorder. I consider it a high quality consumer camcorder, yet with proper care and proper practice could very well produce professional looking video. Of course, one had to go the extra mile(s) to achieve that look. With this in mind, I made the choice to delve deeper into camera operating and went with the XL2. What I’m trying to say is, one never knows what will influence them to go a certain direction. The pro’s on this forum helped me sway to their direction and made me realize the value of going “balls out” not rather than later. At the same time I don’t want what Jeff McElroy mentioned - an abundance of intolerable, clueless individuals. Consumer cams WILL bring them and we WILL get these questions: “How do I upload my footage to my computer?” “How do I import my clips into Windows Movie Maker?” “How do I export my clips without it looking ugly and pixilated?” “What’s this do…what’s that do…” “What’s a camcorder?!” My point is…Lets maintain a certain level of professionalism to prevent that from happening and lets be selective in which camcorders we make a dedicated forum to. Does a certain consumer camera have the potential of producing professional looking video? Or is it the equivalent of a JVC GR-D370 with the HDV brand on its title? __________________ -Roger Rosales www.rogerrosales.com

March 8th, 2006, 10:13 AM	#18
Andrew Khalil Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 424	I originally voted for the first one, but in reality, I don't think it's the right choice anymore because the line is kind of being blurred. I don't think there should be a seperate forum for each manufacturer, just group them all into one forum and title it "consumer HD" or something like that. I think we'll see a lot of new HD models aimed at consumers this year and while I think those looking for one of those cameras shouldn't in any way be excluded, I do think maintaining a professional atmosphere around here will benefit those people as well as the pros or more advanced users currently here.

March 8th, 2006, 12:31 PM	#20
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Chris - to me , your model for dv cameras worked quite well. Why change it ? I'd vote for a forum based on make. One for canon, one for panasonic etc. Then when a model takes off like the pd150 or dvx, you assign a separate forum. Seemed to work before. thanks Kurth

March 8th, 2006, 02:56 PM	#21
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Somebody mentioned an XDCAM area above,and it seems to me too that since P2 has a separate area as a recording format, XDCAM should also. That would cover both primary tapeless formats. And all the consumer stuff could be one thing, as others above have suggested--that seems logical to me too.

April 17th, 2006, 08:54 PM	#23
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	I guess I would not be considered a pro :-) I don't do a lot of video (until now) the Sanyo is the first camera that makes me "want" to do video. I am primarily a Still guy I take well over 10,000 pics a year (its an obsession) Until now video in my budgetary range was so unsatisfactory and I simply hated Mini DV (download my you know what 2 hours to move 2 hours of video no thanks) the Resolution of the HD1 is mind Numbing and to think many of you are not impressed it boggles my mind to think of what WOULD impress you :-) wow One thing I like about the sanyo is its size. I am drooling in anticipation of putting this thing inside of a rocket ! For years I have been using Hitachi MPEG10W's (they record direct to mpeg1) so the HD1 was a massive planetary scale upgrade for me ! I chose individual forum for each make model as I am really only interested in HD1 stuff since well thats what I have :-) hehe Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

April 18th, 2006, 01:05 AM	#24
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	www.red.com http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=466239 ;) I think that it is important to have a general forum by type, apart from forums for the most popular cameras, as I have previously said. I think it keeps you aware of what new cameras and equipment is out there, apart from more people to mix with, advice and contrasting views. If the Sanyo HD1EX was $200 I probably would buy it myself, a useful little thing to carry around ;).

May 13th, 2006, 02:37 AM	#25
Trond Saetre Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 3,375	I think the HD/HDV forum should be based on the same model as the DV part. Start with one general consumer HDV, and as time goes by and more thread are written, expand to separate subforums for different brands if needed.

May 18th, 2006, 10:05 PM	#26
John Godden Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 172	Manufacturer specific might be specific enough. If those grow out of control then a further split might be needed. Regards JohnG

September 13th, 2006, 01:03 PM	#28
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Good point. Also, a year or so after the TRV900 came out, I saw a PBS show that had been shot in China by students acting like tourists with TRV900s. And when the VX1000 came out, the producers of "Saltmen of Tibet" used it for that great documentary because they couldn't get pro gear into the country. However, it's probably a good idea to not deal with all the lower end consumer stuff. Maybe just keep it to nothing under a 1/3" chip camera, like the Sony A1U?