HDV image quality comparison at DVinfo.net

Robert Niemann · January 24th, 2006, 07:22 AM

The German magazine "VIDEOAKTIV digital" has made a comparison of the following HDV camcorders:

- Canon XL 1H
- JVC GY-HD100
- Sony HDR-FX1/HVR-Z1
- Sony HDR-HC1/HVR-A1

The image quality comparison is now online:

- HDV resolution: http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...121&nav_id=121
- DV resolution: http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...122&nav_id=122
- lowlight ((30 lux): http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...124&nav_id=124
- chromatic aberration: http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...125&nav_id=125
- daylight (900 lux): http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...126&nav_id=126

Robert Niemann · January 24th, 2006, 07:52 AM

By the way, the appendant article (not downloadable) makes two interesting statements regarding the JVC GY-HD100:

1. "Soon" the ProHD concept will be enhanced with two PCM audio tracks to use the full MiniDV bandwidth of 25 megabit per second (up to now ProHD uses only 19 Mbit/s). Maybe, with a firmware update, perhaps with a successor of the HD100 presented at NAB 2006. Referring to this it is interesting for me to notice, that at present JVC makes special HD100 offers (free IDX battery kit in America, free Canopus software in Europe). Do they want to clear their stocks?
2. Fujinon seems to have to revised the stock lens. Chromatic aberration has been lowered in comparison with earlier units.

Shannon Rawls · January 24th, 2006, 10:48 AM

Honestly, I think everybody who got the JVC HD100 for the price they did was LUCKY. That camera has no business being as inexpensive as it is. Maybe they are clearing their inventory for a HD100a coming soon. Someone posted in the HD100 forum that the camera price is going to be increased in February. Makes yu wonder....

As far as these tests go.

HD & SD RESOLUTION: I wonder why the FX1 & Z1U are two different colors? The Resolution is dead the same, but the colors were different. It's obvious which camera has the highest.

LOW LIGHT TEST: See what I mean! I told you guys the XL-H1 can see in the dark. *smile* Very important for indie films.

CHROMATIC ABBERATION TEST: The FX1 is killin' em. It looks the best in my opinion. The Canon XL-H1 just looks nasty red! LOL The The HD100 is bad but in a eye pleasing way, no where near as ugly as the XL-H1.

HIGHLIGHT TEST: The Sony A1 is gorgeous. Must be something special about that CMOS sensor. The HD100 is friggin' nice as well, check out the grass. The XL-H1 is out of focus, but regarding the highlights it must have been dialed in, because it looks knee slappin' good. The HC1 is blown to hell. The Z1 is great too, check out the sheeps fur. If I had to pick based on Highlights, id say the the A1 is best.

What do you guys think?

- ShannonRawls.com

Meryem Ersoz · January 24th, 2006, 11:18 AM

i've been looking for an excuse to get an H1 and have not really found one yet, and this test is kind of confirming of that hesitation. the level of chromatic aberration is very disappointing. when you add a long lens to an XL2 (or even the 1.6x teleconverter for that matter), chromatic aberration is exacerbated, so i worry that if this is what the stock lens delivers, adding long lenses to the H1 will result in a very noticeable problem. this is not good for wildlife footage, where things like bird wings, pine tree needles, etc. will display a lot of purple fringing. and the whole point of an interchangeable lens system is that you can get looks that no existing stock lens in this camcorder class provides.

this is primarily an issue for wildlife and sports applications and may not be a concern for other types of shooting, so maybe it's a niche concern, but since it's what i do, it is a big one at $9,000. i've never considered a JVC camera before, but the more i see, the more tempting it becomes, for the money....

meanwhile, the FX-1 i purchased, for the price point, is looking like an increasingly excellent interim camera...a lot of value for the money, and it does fabulous, beautiful footage. my *only* complaint is the short reach and poor solutions for extending it. (expensive or jerry-rigged are the choices....). and the A1 is remarkably holding its own. that would make a nice interim camera, too.

it's nice to see some real comparisons actually posted!

as i read and read and read (and read some more!), my sense is that it will be worth waiting for the next generation of these HDV cameras and any new models and holding the cards i have....

Kevin Shaw · January 24th, 2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

LOW LIGHT TEST: See what I mean! I told you guys the XL-H1 can see in the dark.

Assuming the camera settings were all appropriate, the XL-H1 low-light response is impressive compared to the others! Now all we need to see is a comparison to the HVX200 and the upcoming XDCAM HD, and it will be easier to decide what to do about recording HD in poorly lit situations. Any further examples people find on this particular subject, please post them.

Alister Chapman · January 24th, 2006, 01:10 PM

It's just a real shame that test carried out by a proper magazine can't even be carried out in such a way as to make the results mean something. Clearly the cameras have not been white balanced. With the test charts not one of them appears to be correctly exposed, whats worse is they are all exposed differently, the whites should all be the same, otherwise any test is pretty meaningless.

Yes the H1 CA looks to be the worst, but the Sony and JVC cams are showing so much edge enhancement that the are probably hiding much of the CA.

Graham Hickling · January 24th, 2006, 03:04 PM

Hmmmm... why would the sheepy highlights blow out on the HC1 and not the A1, given that these cameras have the same underlying sensor hardware?

Are these two cameras truly different internally, or it is just the way the magazine guys set them up for this shoot?

Stu Holmes · January 24th, 2006, 04:05 PM

Yeah i noted that too on the sheep.

It may be that A1 had Black Stretch switched on and this i believe has an effect on the shift of the gamma curve.
Also I believe the A1 has more extensive/different EIP (Enhanced Image Processing) compared to HC1 so this may account for the difference.

Altenatively it may just be a very small exposure difference which, despite the German's infamous stereotypical meticulous attention to detail as regards tests of this nature, may have got past them..

Nate Weaver · January 24th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

It's just a real shame that test carried out by a proper magazine can't even be carried out in such a way as to make the results mean something.

Cosign.

The only thing I learned from those stills is that no effort was made to get the cameras operating on level ground.

Peter Jefferson · January 24th, 2006, 11:32 PM

"Now all we need to see is a comparison to the HVX200 and the upcoming XDCAM HD,"

well dude, with the size of the CCD, the XDCam will definately poo on most of the efforts here id direct comparisons are being considered...

if were all lookin at 1/3 units, thats different..

Graham Hickling · January 24th, 2006, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

Also I believe the A1 has more extensive/different EIP (Enhanced Image Processing) compared to HC1 so this may account for the difference..

Interesting - does anyone have a link on any details of that?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 24th, 2006, 11:58 PM

I'm confident they're the same image DSP, but the A1u has some "unlocked" sections on the DSP. In fact, if you search hard enough, you can find a hack in the netherlands that effectively turns an HC1 into an A1, minus the audio and shoe. Needless to say, it's pretty obvious that the test didn't set all the cams to the same reference point.

Wayne Morellini · January 25th, 2006, 06:56 AM

Douglas, if you can provide us with more keywords we can google, I'm sure we would love to try. It usually is easier to find what you found before than for somebody else to, sometimes you search for 6 hours and come up with nothing.

Thanks

Wayne.

Graham Hickling · January 25th, 2006, 07:01 AM

Here's one link: http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=3486

Michael Hastings · January 25th, 2006, 07:57 AM

Could you give us a link for more info on this Hack?

Thanks,

Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

I'm confident they're the same image DSP, but the A1u has some "unlocked" sections on the DSP. In fact, if you search hard enough, you can find a hack in the netherlands that effectively turns an HC1 into an A1, minus the audio and shoe. Needless to say, it's pretty obvious that the test didn't set all the cams to the same reference point.

January 24th, 2006, 07:22 AM	#1
Robert Niemann Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Posts: 109	HDV image quality comparison The German magazine "VIDEOAKTIV digital" has made a comparison of the following HDV camcorders: - Canon XL 1H - JVC GY-HD100 - Sony HDR-FX1/HVR-Z1 - Sony HDR-HC1/HVR-A1 The image quality comparison is now online: - HDV resolution: http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...121&nav_id=121 - DV resolution: http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...122&nav_id=122 - lowlight ((30 lux): http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...124&nav_id=124 - chromatic aberration: http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...125&nav_id=125 - daylight (900 lux): http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?po...126&nav_id=126

January 24th, 2006, 10:48 AM	#3
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Honestly, I think everybody who got the JVC HD100 for the price they did was LUCKY. That camera has no business being as inexpensive as it is. Maybe they are clearing their inventory for a HD100a coming soon. Someone posted in the HD100 forum that the camera price is going to be increased in February. Makes yu wonder.... As far as these tests go. HD & SD RESOLUTION: I wonder why the FX1 & Z1U are two different colors? The Resolution is dead the same, but the colors were different. It's obvious which camera has the highest. LOW LIGHT TEST: See what I mean! I told you guys the XL-H1 can see in the dark. smile Very important for indie films. CHROMATIC ABBERATION TEST: The FX1 is killin' em. It looks the best in my opinion. The Canon XL-H1 just looks nasty red! LOL The The HD100 is bad but in a eye pleasing way, no where near as ugly as the XL-H1. HIGHLIGHT TEST: The Sony A1 is gorgeous. Must be something special about that CMOS sensor. The HD100 is friggin' nice as well, check out the grass. The XL-H1 is out of focus, but regarding the highlights it must have been dialed in, because it looks knee slappin' good. The HC1 is blown to hell. The Z1 is great too, check out the sheeps fur. If I had to pick based on Highlights, id say the the A1 is best. What do you guys think? - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 24th, 2006, 01:10 PM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	It's just a real shame that test carried out by a proper magazine can't even be carried out in such a way as to make the results mean something. Clearly the cameras have not been white balanced. With the test charts not one of them appears to be correctly exposed, whats worse is they are all exposed differently, the whites should all be the same, otherwise any test is pretty meaningless. Yes the H1 CA looks to be the worst, but the Sony and JVC cams are showing so much edge enhancement that the are probably hiding much of the CA. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 24th, 2006, 11:58 PM	#12
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	I'm confident they're the same image DSP, but the A1u has some "unlocked" sections on the DSP. In fact, if you search hard enough, you can find a hack in the netherlands that effectively turns an HC1 into an A1, minus the audio and shoe. Needless to say, it's pretty obvious that the test didn't set all the cams to the same reference point. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 24th, 2006, 07:52 AM	#2
Robert Niemann Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Posts: 109	By the way, the appendant article (not downloadable) makes two interesting statements regarding the JVC GY-HD100: 1. "Soon" the ProHD concept will be enhanced with two PCM audio tracks to use the full MiniDV bandwidth of 25 megabit per second (up to now ProHD uses only 19 Mbit/s). Maybe, with a firmware update, perhaps with a successor of the HD100 presented at NAB 2006. Referring to this it is interesting for me to notice, that at present JVC makes special HD100 offers (free IDX battery kit in America, free Canopus software in Europe). Do they want to clear their stocks? 2. Fujinon seems to have to revised the stock lens. Chromatic aberration has been lowered in comparison with earlier units.

January 24th, 2006, 11:18 AM	#4
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	i've been looking for an excuse to get an H1 and have not really found one yet, and this test is kind of confirming of that hesitation. the level of chromatic aberration is very disappointing. when you add a long lens to an XL2 (or even the 1.6x teleconverter for that matter), chromatic aberration is exacerbated, so i worry that if this is what the stock lens delivers, adding long lenses to the H1 will result in a very noticeable problem. this is not good for wildlife footage, where things like bird wings, pine tree needles, etc. will display a lot of purple fringing. and the whole point of an interchangeable lens system is that you can get looks that no existing stock lens in this camcorder class provides. this is primarily an issue for wildlife and sports applications and may not be a concern for other types of shooting, so maybe it's a niche concern, but since it's what i do, it is a big one at $9,000. i've never considered a JVC camera before, but the more i see, the more tempting it becomes, for the money.... meanwhile, the FX-1 i purchased, for the price point, is looking like an increasingly excellent interim camera...a lot of value for the money, and it does fabulous, beautiful footage. my only complaint is the short reach and poor solutions for extending it. (expensive or jerry-rigged are the choices....). and the A1 is remarkably holding its own. that would make a nice interim camera, too. it's nice to see some real comparisons actually posted! as i read and read and read (and read some more!), my sense is that it will be worth waiting for the next generation of these HDV cameras and any new models and holding the cards i have....

January 24th, 2006, 03:04 PM	#7
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Hmmmm... why would the sheepy highlights blow out on the HC1 and not the A1, given that these cameras have the same underlying sensor hardware? Are these two cameras truly different internally, or it is just the way the magazine guys set them up for this shoot?

January 24th, 2006, 04:05 PM	#8
Stu Holmes Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 844	Yeah i noted that too on the sheep. It may be that A1 had Black Stretch switched on and this i believe has an effect on the shift of the gamma curve. Also I believe the A1 has more extensive/different EIP (Enhanced Image Processing) compared to HC1 so this may account for the difference. Altenatively it may just be a very small exposure difference which, despite the German's infamous stereotypical meticulous attention to detail as regards tests of this nature, may have got past them..

January 24th, 2006, 11:32 PM	#10
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	"Now all we need to see is a comparison to the HVX200 and the upcoming XDCAM HD," well dude, with the size of the CCD, the XDCam will definately poo on most of the efforts here id direct comparisons are being considered... if were all lookin at 1/3 units, thats different..

January 25th, 2006, 06:56 AM	#13
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Douglas, if you can provide us with more keywords we can google, I'm sure we would love to try. It usually is easier to find what you found before than for somebody else to, sometimes you search for 6 hours and come up with nothing. Thanks Wayne.

January 25th, 2006, 07:01 AM	#14
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Here's one link: http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=3486