L.A. 4-camera shootout questions

Jim Michael · January 13th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Pank

Snip

Chris, is there no chance of hosting some clips from the Texas shootout? A low cost DVD is a great idea - if you can find a UK distributor, as the cost of mailing across the atlantic I think would make it prohibitive for many over here.

How do you define prohibitive? I distribute some books and software to clients all over the world and typically ship via Registered Airmail. My shipping cost is typically under $20 USD.

Bill Pryor · January 13th, 2006, 05:03 PM

Walter--Love the West Side Story comments! How appropriate.

Dylan Pank · January 13th, 2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Dylan, hopefully Chris is finally winging his way back home, so I'll jump in here. I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but I think that regarding not posting clips, he was just referring to this past weekend's shootout in CA. I don't think the offer of a DVD was meant to imply that no clips will go online from the TX Shootout.

Actually I assumed the other way, I got the feeling Chris has handed the California standoff (if we're going to give out titles) over to DVXuser, for Jared Land and Barry Green to over see, seeing as Shannon's post seems to have got things off on the wrong foot over here.

If it could be kept to under $20 then yes, that would be doable. provided the package would be marked as "no material value". I had a friend badly stung by a company that sent a training DVD worth about $80 and labelled it as software worth $150. Customs picked him up on it and charged him import duty on the fictional $150. I tihnk the DVD produ cers were hoping to gouge some extra money on any lost or damaged discs.

Bill Porter · January 13th, 2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Graff

When DV found a way into the professional market in a limited aspect, dreams of folks who could never afford professional equipment were suddenly realized and answered. Now "I" could shoot just like a pro. It is no different than wanting to be like Michael Jordan. No one could but once Nike put his name on a pair of shoes and paid him millions to wear them in commercials, anyone could feel closer to that dream. And the marketing of prosumer cameras has taken a step further.

I differ on this opinion. My Air Jordans don't make my basketball game the slightest bit better. My prosumer camera does make my footage better.

Lucia de Nieva · January 13th, 2006, 08:40 PM

Thanks to Michael Pappas' link I was able to read Shannon's initial post - with much amusement. I however would like to see future comments as a video, for I can imagine this to be much more genial than the pure text. While fully understanding and supporting Chris' strict devotion to polite professionalism, I would definitely see Shannon's "in-the-face-street-cred"-style as an enrichment for this site - in addition to and not despite of its seriousity. From the text I can find not even a hint that anyone cheated on the settings. Since the only appropriate comment on this "character assassination / attorney counsel / allegation"-wannabee-drama-trash would probably lead to my banning, I leave it to your imagination.

Humour anyone? Ever heard of Hitch's practical jokes? I wonder how he ever managed to make films without being crucified.

Chris Hurd · January 13th, 2006, 09:11 PM

Okay, now that I'm finally home... been a long day at the SFO airport and in the air...

This weekend I will restore the Shannon Rawls report, the pertinent technical parts, minus the personal diatribe and flames. Too bad I couldn't do this earlier as it might have avoided a lot of the ruffled feathers, but I was too busy with real-life work at MacWorld.

Regarding the L.A. shootout, DV Info Net will not host video clips from that event. Hopefully DVX User will. It's in Barry and Jarred's hands to do as they see fit. I wash my hands of that affair completely. I'm hoping that there's some benefit to the L.A. shootout video that makes it worthy of hosting at DVX User, but of course it's their call completely. I hope they choose to put some stuff online.

Regarding the Texas shootout, DV Info Net *will* host *selected" video clips... not a lot, but a few... plus still frames plus production shots. We are planning on a companion DVD or set of DVDs with plenty of material, to sell at or very near cost. This will not be a DV Info Net item and I will take no personal profit whatsoever from those sales. Rather it will be an HD For Indies item or an HD For Indies / DV Info Net joint collaboration. Whatever it is, sales of the DVD will be used only to recover the cost of producing it and anything made beyond that will be applied to offset the cost of doing the shootout. Hope that's clear enough to understand.

Regarding Michael Pappas and Shannon Rawls, I would like to strongly encourage them to start their own website / message board / blog / whatever, which they can run however they see fit, and indulge themselves in all manner of conspiracy theories, urban legends, street drama, virtual drive-by's, manhood measuring, number crunching, pixel counting, ranting, railing, whining, crying, he-said she-said, mine's better than yours, who stinks revelations, who's biased judgement calls, and all the other crap that I wish they wouldn't post on DV Info Net and have asked them time and time again not to. And I hope *that's* clear enough to understand.

Shannon Rawls · January 13th, 2006, 09:21 PM

JUST HUNG UP THE PHONE WITH BARRY GREEN. We talked for 2 hours 2 minutes 34 seconds.

*smile*

It's remarkable how when two "real men" talk face-to-face or phone-to-phone, things get understood and resolved so much more then they ever could have on the internet or through email.

Listen Everybody.....and I hope everybody hears me well......
BARRY GREEN DID NOT DO ANYTHING "UNDERHANDED" OR "SNEAKY" OR "DISHONEST" DURING THE CAMERA TEST. IF ANYBODY DEDUCED THAT FROM MY REPORT, YOU READ IT WRONG. BARRY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I DID NOT SEE ANYTHING LIKE THAT, I DID NOT WITNESS BARRY GREEN DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT....AND HONESTLY, I DO NOT THINK BARRY EVEN "TOUCHED" ANY OTHER CAMERA THERE BESIDES THE PANASONIC HVX200. HE REFUSED TO HANDLE THEM, SO IT IS "IMPOSSIBLE" FOR HIM TO PUT ANY CAMERA AT A DISADVATAGE OR CHANGE ANY SETTINGS ON ANY OF THOSE CAMERAS. BARRY GREEN ONLY HANDLED THE PANASONIC HVX200 AND DID HIS VERY BEST TO MAKE SURE THAT CAMERA PERFORMED IT'S VERY BEST DURING THE TESTS. WHICH IS WHAT WAS CLEARLY STATED EARLY THAT MORNING AS OUR ULTIMATE GOAL.

basically, HE DID WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.

ADDITIONALLY, WHEN TESTING THE PANASONIC HVX200, I WATCHED BARRY AS CLOSE AS I COULD. EVERYTIME JAY ASKED HIM TO CHANGE A SETTING, THAT IS "ALL" HE CHANGED. I NEVER SEEN HIM CHANGE SOMETING "OTHER" THEN WHAT HE WAS INSTRUCTED TO CHANGE.

SHANNON W. RAWLS <---- IS WRONG FOR MAKING ANYBODY THINK OTHERWISE, AND AS A RESULT....I RETRACT ANY STATEMENTS I HAVE EVER MADE THAT WOULD GIVE ANYBODY THE IMPRESSION THAT BARRY UNDERHANDLEDLY DID THINGS THAT HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DOING. BARRY DID NOT RIG ANYTING. THE TEST WAS UN-RIGABLE. BARRY DID NOT LIE TO ANYBODY EITHER, SO GET THAT OUT YOUR HEADS.

I would like to make this same statement at DVXUSER, but I can't, if someone can copy/paste it there, that would be appreciated.

Barry tried to have phone sex with me, but I refused. *smile*

.... JUST KIDDING...THAT WAS A JOKE.....I AM LYING...THAT IS NOT TRUE....but do you guys see what kinda guy I am now?.....So if you misunderstood what I wrote in my report, I am sorry, but you're wrong.

Chris.....slice & dice my report as you see fit! *smile* Also Chris, I responded to the JVCHD100 over in the hd100 area about how that camera performed well about 2 hours ago. It has been removed as well. Please edit that post and restore it too please.

- ShannonRawls.com

Jacob Mason · January 13th, 2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

I would like to make this same statement at DVXUSER, but I can't, if someone can copy/paste it there, that would be appreciated.

I'd like to, but I'm a little worried, as one of my other posts had already been deleted when referencing the resurrection of your account here. If I do something similar again, I could get zotted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

Barry tried to have phone sex with me, but I refused. *smile*

LMAO, there's nothing like make-up phone sex.

Shannon Rawls · January 13th, 2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

i'd really like to hear what you thought of the cameras and how they performed. seriously.

the fact the you're more the lay type makes your evaluation all the more interesting since that's the category i fall in to also.

Brian, I would love to give you the REAL DEAL, but I can't. I don't know how. I am too harsh for DVINFO apparently. My style of writing would be PERFECT for DVXUSER, but only if anything made by Panasonic was exhaulted. Unfortunately I don't exhault any particular manufacturer, I only exhault the BEST equipment, and I do so with a sharp tongue. Currently, my style of writing doesn't agree with any DV website currently available on the internet. I tend to tell it like it is, and I use words that allow you to 'read' what I'm saying as if you were actully sitting here drinking a beer and 'hearing' me in real life. Alas, when I sit with friends, I damn sure am not Politically Correct. And I need to be here.

Chris keep suggesting that me and Pappas start our own website.....Funny thing is, I already own an extremely popular discussion forum that I allow everybody to say what they hell they want to. *smile* So if I owned a DV forum website, the same would go there as well. So Chris' idea is a good one.

There's just one problem

I LIKE IT HERE! *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

Chris Hurd · January 13th, 2006, 09:49 PM

Great, then maybe you can get Michael Pappas to remove that pirated PDF he has been circulating. It carries DV Info Net branding and I have not given him nor anyone else permission to re-distribute my brand. Not very cool, and so very serious. And yes I will restore that HD100 thread, tomorrow.

David Saraceno · January 13th, 2006, 10:45 PM

Shannon.

In reading your posts earlier, it appeared that you were saying that Green was finding mostly no fault with the Panny's performance and characteristics, and finding fault with each of the other cameras on a somewhat consistent basis.

Not saying that was exactly what you meant, but that's how I at least was interpretting it.

Are you now saying that was not what you attempted to convey?

I'm just trying to evaluate a big purchase decision for us, and I'm like a lot people here and elsewhere looking for objective, unbiased information about performance.

thanks.

Shannon Rawls · January 13th, 2006, 10:54 PM

David, you're correct. That is exaclty what I was saying.

WHat I am addressing above is how some people are twisting my words up and taking things the wrong way.

Unlike you, some people are out there lying and saying I said Barry lied about something! (lies about lies....that's funny. lol)
Man, Barry didn't lie about anything! I never said that or even IMPLIED that he lied about something. Lied?? Lied about WHAT??? Yet & still, people are saying I said that.

People are even saying that I said "Barry rigged the test!" WTF??? I never said anything like that....Rigged the test??? HOW???? Dude, this is not the 2000 presidential election!!!!

*calm down shannon*

count to 10 (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10)

Breathe In...........*ooooooo*............Let it out........*ahhhhhhhhhh*

David,

What I am saying is I never called Barry a LIAR & Barry did not "rig" any test. He couldn't, I was there!
It's kinda hard to explain in typed words.

- ShannonRawls.com

Chris Hurd · January 13th, 2006, 11:05 PM

Can we move forward please. Thank you.

Shannon Rawls · January 13th, 2006, 11:08 PM

I agree. Actually, what does this thread have to do with the useability of HD/HDV. It should be locked or deleted.

- Shannon

Brian Duke · January 13th, 2006, 11:11 PM

Let's call the arbitrator in....

January 13th, 2006, 08:40 PM	#35
Lucia de Nieva Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany, Northern Europe Posts: 32	Enhancing the experience. Thanks to Michael Pappas' link I was able to read Shannon's initial post - with much amusement. I however would like to see future comments as a video, for I can imagine this to be much more genial than the pure text. While fully understanding and supporting Chris' strict devotion to polite professionalism, I would definitely see Shannon's "in-the-face-street-cred"-style as an enrichment for this site - in addition to and not despite of its seriousity. From the text I can find not even a hint that anyone cheated on the settings. Since the only appropriate comment on this "character assassination / attorney counsel / allegation"-wannabee-drama-trash would probably lead to my banning, I leave it to your imagination. Humour anyone? Ever heard of Hitch's practical jokes? I wonder how he ever managed to make films without being crucified.

January 13th, 2006, 09:11 PM	#36
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Okay, now that I'm finally home... been a long day at the SFO airport and in the air... This weekend I will restore the Shannon Rawls report, the pertinent technical parts, minus the personal diatribe and flames. Too bad I couldn't do this earlier as it might have avoided a lot of the ruffled feathers, but I was too busy with real-life work at MacWorld. Regarding the L.A. shootout, DV Info Net will not host video clips from that event. Hopefully DVX User will. It's in Barry and Jarred's hands to do as they see fit. I wash my hands of that affair completely. I'm hoping that there's some benefit to the L.A. shootout video that makes it worthy of hosting at DVX User, but of course it's their call completely. I hope they choose to put some stuff online. Regarding the Texas shootout, DV Info Net will host selected" video clips... not a lot, but a few... plus still frames plus production shots. We are planning on a companion DVD or set of DVDs with plenty of material, to sell at or very near cost. This will not be a DV Info Net item and I will take no personal profit whatsoever from those sales. Rather it will be an HD For Indies item or an HD For Indies / DV Info Net joint collaboration. Whatever it is, sales of the DVD will be used only to recover the cost of producing it and anything made beyond that will be applied to offset the cost of doing the shootout. Hope that's clear enough to understand. Regarding Michael Pappas and Shannon Rawls, I would like to strongly encourage them to start their own website / message board / blog / whatever, which they can run however they see fit, and indulge themselves in all manner of conspiracy theories, urban legends, street drama, virtual drive-by's, manhood measuring, number crunching, pixel counting, ranting, railing, whining, crying, he-said she-said, mine's better than yours, who stinks revelations, who's biased judgement calls, and all the other crap that I wish they wouldn't post on DV Info Net and have asked them time and time again not to. And I hope that's* clear enough to understand. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 13th, 2006, 09:21 PM	#37
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	JUST HUNG UP THE PHONE WITH BARRY GREEN. We talked for 2 hours 2 minutes 34 seconds. smile It's remarkable how when two "real men" talk face-to-face or phone-to-phone, things get understood and resolved so much more then they ever could have on the internet or through email. Listen Everybody.....and I hope everybody hears me well...... BARRY GREEN DID NOT DO ANYTHING "UNDERHANDED" OR "SNEAKY" OR "DISHONEST" DURING THE CAMERA TEST. IF ANYBODY DEDUCED THAT FROM MY REPORT, YOU READ IT WRONG. BARRY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I DID NOT SEE ANYTHING LIKE THAT, I DID NOT WITNESS BARRY GREEN DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT....AND HONESTLY, I DO NOT THINK BARRY EVEN "TOUCHED" ANY OTHER CAMERA THERE BESIDES THE PANASONIC HVX200. HE REFUSED TO HANDLE THEM, SO IT IS "IMPOSSIBLE" FOR HIM TO PUT ANY CAMERA AT A DISADVATAGE OR CHANGE ANY SETTINGS ON ANY OF THOSE CAMERAS. BARRY GREEN ONLY HANDLED THE PANASONIC HVX200 AND DID HIS VERY BEST TO MAKE SURE THAT CAMERA PERFORMED IT'S VERY BEST DURING THE TESTS. WHICH IS WHAT WAS CLEARLY STATED EARLY THAT MORNING AS OUR ULTIMATE GOAL. basically, HE DID WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO. ADDITIONALLY, WHEN TESTING THE PANASONIC HVX200, I WATCHED BARRY AS CLOSE AS I COULD. EVERYTIME JAY ASKED HIM TO CHANGE A SETTING, THAT IS "ALL" HE CHANGED. I NEVER SEEN HIM CHANGE SOMETING "OTHER" THEN WHAT HE WAS INSTRUCTED TO CHANGE. SHANNON W. RAWLS <---- IS WRONG FOR MAKING ANYBODY THINK OTHERWISE, AND AS A RESULT....I RETRACT ANY STATEMENTS I HAVE EVER MADE THAT WOULD GIVE ANYBODY THE IMPRESSION THAT BARRY UNDERHANDLEDLY DID THINGS THAT HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DOING. BARRY DID NOT RIG ANYTING. THE TEST WAS UN-RIGABLE. BARRY DID NOT LIE TO ANYBODY EITHER, SO GET THAT OUT YOUR HEADS. I would like to make this same statement at DVXUSER, but I can't, if someone can copy/paste it there, that would be appreciated. Barry tried to have phone sex with me, but I refused. smile .... JUST KIDDING...THAT WAS A JOKE.....I AM LYING...THAT IS NOT TRUE....but do you guys see what kinda guy I am now?.....So if you misunderstood what I wrote in my report, I am sorry, but you're wrong. Chris.....slice & dice my report as you see fit! smile Also Chris, I responded to the JVCHD100 over in the hd100 area about how that camera performed well about 2 hours ago. It has been removed as well. Please edit that post and restore it too please. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 13th, 2006, 09:49 PM	#40
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Great, then maybe you can get Michael Pappas to remove that pirated PDF he has been circulating. It carries DV Info Net branding and I have not given him nor anyone else permission to re-distribute my brand. Not very cool, and so very serious. And yes I will restore that HD100 thread, tomorrow. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 13th, 2006, 10:54 PM	#42
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	David, you're correct. That is exaclty what I was saying. WHat I am addressing above is how some people are twisting my words up and taking things the wrong way. Unlike you, some people are out there lying and saying I said Barry lied about something! (lies about lies....that's funny. lol) Man, Barry didn't lie about anything! I never said that or even IMPLIED that he lied about something. Lied?? Lied about WHAT??? Yet & still, people are saying I said that. People are even saying that I said "Barry rigged the test!" WTF??? I never said anything like that....Rigged the test??? HOW???? Dude, this is not the 2000 presidential election!!!! calm down shannon count to 10 (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10) Breathe In...........ooooooo............Let it out........ahhhhhhhhhh David, What I am saying is I never called Barry a LIAR & Barry did not "rig" any test. He couldn't, I was there! It's kinda hard to explain in typed words. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 13th, 2006, 05:03 PM	#32
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Walter--Love the West Side Story comments! How appropriate.

January 13th, 2006, 10:45 PM	#41
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	Shannon. In reading your posts earlier, it appeared that you were saying that Green was finding mostly no fault with the Panny's performance and characteristics, and finding fault with each of the other cameras on a somewhat consistent basis. Not saying that was exactly what you meant, but that's how I at least was interpretting it. Are you now saying that was not what you attempted to convey? I'm just trying to evaluate a big purchase decision for us, and I'm like a lot people here and elsewhere looking for objective, unbiased information about performance. thanks.

January 13th, 2006, 11:05 PM	#43
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Can we move forward please. Thank you. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 13th, 2006, 11:08 PM	#44
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	I agree. Actually, what does this thread have to do with the useability of HD/HDV. It should be locked or deleted. - Shannon Last edited by Shannon Rawls; January 13th, 2006 at 11:55 PM. Reason: no relevance

January 13th, 2006, 11:11 PM	#45
Brian Duke Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hollywood, California Posts: 899	Let's call the arbitrator in....