Why no serious professional comparisons of prosumer equipment?

Mike Marriage · January 8th, 2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jay

In the UK, at the moment, a PAL DVX100BE is on offer at <£2K and according to tests can record a 540x540 resolution signal on a 25 Mbps tape

How can justification be made for 100 Mbps recording on special media for a 600x600 resolution signal from a HVX200E?

I don't think they are quite that similar. More like 540x500 vs 600x650 (maybe a little higher). But still, is that enough?

Petr Marusek · January 8th, 2006, 03:40 PM

DVX has 4x3 CCD's doesn't it? So if you shoot 16x9, you letterbox and lose 25% vertical resolution; not so with Canon XL2. HVX shoots up to 60p for slow motion. Does it not have 4-channel audio? P2 cards have advantage for fast news downloads to satellite link, etc. The lens is longer and is HD and it may have better zoom and focus rings. It shoots 4:2:2 DVCPRO50 for better color. There are many advantages in the new camera.

Mathieu Ghekiere · January 8th, 2006, 04:38 PM

Ash, I understand what you are saying but Barry Green and Shannon Rawls (and a couple of others) said they were going to do a big test.
Shannon has the Canon, Barry will have the HVX (and even said would try to get a Varicam and Cinealta to test along the others!), Others will have their camera...

That could conclude in a big big article here on DVinfo, with an OBJECTIVE rapport on everything: resolution, color, motion, ...
So, I for sure, am really looking forward to it.

Richard Alvarez · January 8th, 2006, 04:42 PM

I've always had a lot of respect for Adam Wilt, when he takes a look at a piece of gear. It would be good to get his take on it.

Mike Marriage · January 8th, 2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

I've always had a lot of respect for Adam Wilt, when he takes a look at a piece of gear. It would be good to get his take on it.

I think he is in on Barry's test last I heard.

Chris Hurd · January 8th, 2006, 08:10 PM

This thread and the one that Ash Greyson started which was titled "I can make a prediction right now about what real tests will show!" have been merged together into one, at the suggestion of our forum moderators.

Ash Greyson · January 8th, 2006, 08:59 PM

Makes sense Chris...

ash =o)

Wayne Morellini · January 9th, 2006, 12:07 AM

Apart from testing resolution, color rendition, lens accuracy/warping, extreme latitude and low light, we should test compression artifacts (using accurate uncompressed/lossless blowups to illustrate problems.

One thing I have noticed in motion artifact tests, is that people squint at it and say it looks fine, but if you blow up the frame you discover it is full of fine to medium blocking. So your 1440*1080 frame has 720*540 and less resolution in parts. People probably don't notice it until it gets to 360*270, but when you blow up to a really big screen everything is noticeable, even just discontenting so. So can I suggest two sorts of tests, one movement based, and the other changed based (movement retains a lot of moving previous information, compared to an change test that has lots of changing areas ion screen). One thing that has been noticed on consumer/pro-sumer camera, is changing the camera mode or shutter, has a profound effect on motion artifacts to.

To recreate them for each camera, they could be 60fps+ visually lossless footage at 10+bits put on a big screen running at high enough refresh. Maybe one of the higher end cameras could provide it in that format. Failing that, getting a loaner of the new Sony SHD projector might be able to do it by showing 4 HD feeds on one screen.

Two SHD screens:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57770

January 8th, 2006, 04:38 PM	#18
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Ash, I understand what you are saying but Barry Green and Shannon Rawls (and a couple of others) said they were going to do a big test. Shannon has the Canon, Barry will have the HVX (and even said would try to get a Varicam and Cinealta to test along the others!), Others will have their camera... That could conclude in a big big article here on DVinfo, with an OBJECTIVE rapport on everything: resolution, color, motion, ... So, I for sure, am really looking forward to it. __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

January 8th, 2006, 08:10 PM	#21
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	This thread and the one that Ash Greyson started which was titled "I can make a prediction right now about what real tests will show!" have been merged together into one, at the suggestion of our forum moderators. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 9th, 2006, 12:07 AM	#23
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Test sugegstion Apart from testing resolution, color rendition, lens accuracy/warping, extreme latitude and low light, we should test compression artifacts (using accurate uncompressed/lossless blowups to illustrate problems. One thing I have noticed in motion artifact tests, is that people squint at it and say it looks fine, but if you blow up the frame you discover it is full of fine to medium blocking. So your 14401080 frame has 720540 and less resolution in parts. People probably don't notice it until it gets to 360*270, but when you blow up to a really big screen everything is noticeable, even just discontenting so. So can I suggest two sorts of tests, one movement based, and the other changed based (movement retains a lot of moving previous information, compared to an change test that has lots of changing areas ion screen). One thing that has been noticed on consumer/pro-sumer camera, is changing the camera mode or shutter, has a profound effect on motion artifacts to. To recreate them for each camera, they could be 60fps+ visually lossless footage at 10+bits put on a big screen running at high enough refresh. Maybe one of the higher end cameras could provide it in that format. Failing that, getting a loaner of the new Sony SHD projector might be able to do it by showing 4 HD feeds on one screen. Two SHD screens: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57770

January 8th, 2006, 03:40 PM	#17
Petr Marusek Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 155	DVX has 4x3 CCD's doesn't it? So if you shoot 16x9, you letterbox and lose 25% vertical resolution; not so with Canon XL2. HVX shoots up to 60p for slow motion. Does it not have 4-channel audio? P2 cards have advantage for fast news downloads to satellite link, etc. The lens is longer and is HD and it may have better zoom and focus rings. It shoots 4:2:2 DVCPRO50 for better color. There are many advantages in the new camera.

January 8th, 2006, 04:42 PM	#19
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I've always had a lot of respect for Adam Wilt, when he takes a look at a piece of gear. It would be good to get his take on it.

January 8th, 2006, 08:59 PM	#22
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Makes sense Chris... ash =o)