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#1 |
Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 853
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OK, So when are we hooking up to compare these cameras?
I'm ready to rock!
Canon XL-H1 (ready to rock) Sony HVR-Z1U (ready to roll) JVC HD-100 (????) Panasonic HVX-200 (????) Let's do it! I wanna point these puppies at some charts and stuff! See which one has the best resolution since that is so important to everyone. I have a feeling the HVX will have the highest. Let's shoot some flowers & birds for color testing and film some weirdo strangers in Hollywood for motion comparisons! We can even do some run gun type film making. I'll hire an actress and actor for the day to do some public dramatic stuff in the streets of Hollywood. Maybe we'll have them pull up in a car and get out slamming the doors and begin arguing as they walk up the street! We can shoot them from various angles with the various cameras and post the footage. Wassup?? - ShannonRawls.com
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Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition. |
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#2 |
Barry Wan Kenobi
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
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I don't have a production model HVX yet, I'm still working off the preproduction model, so I can't go forward until I get an end-user unit...
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#3 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,195
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Good idea Shannon, not to only film resolution charts, because frankly, I don't care so much about resolution.
The total image is much more important. And photos of the shoot would be very nice to see too, like with that JVC HD100 with Mini35 review. And a review on their ergonomics, how where they to shoot with? I haven't got any of the cams, so I am of no help (and even IF I had them, I would have to come from Belgium :-)) |
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#4 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Spain
Posts: 73
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Good idea Shannon to test all four but, and with all due respect to anyone on these boards, I vote to outsource this test to a pro DP with absolutely no vested interest in any of these cameras or connections with anybody in this community - the heat of the debates about them just go to show people are far too partisan about one make or other and worse I am all too convinced there are unhealthy and undeclared relationships with the various manufacturers going on - manufacturers are getting cuter and cuter in their marketing - (no names no pack drills and no evidence just an ever increasing feeling from the things that are said in the way that they are said).
I also agree with Mathieu 100% rez charts are ultimately misleading - we already know that all 1/3" chip HD cameras are pretty close in terms of rez through the laws of physics and only the 'measurabators' (great term) will find any significant and meaningful difference in them. |
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#5 |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tokyo/Sydney
Posts: 297
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Me and Kaku are hooking up
Due to the bad weather Kaku and I were suppose to hook up 2 days ago,
I having my HD100 would go against Kaku's HVX and even his A1, But I guess that will be done for this weekend or so. Will keep you posted.
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"eyes through a digital world" |
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#6 |
Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 853
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John,
If we find a neutral DP, then fine. But lemme assure you..... SHANNON RAWLS has no intrest in any of these freakin' companies.... I ain't got no software to sell I ain't got no books to write I ain't got no semminars to speak at I ain't got no classes to teach I ain't got no jobs to get based on the cameras I shoot (like dp's do) All I got is Movies to make. Because I'm a PRODUCER.....means a whole lot more then being a DP who likes certain gear. AND I WILL BE THERE. I'm as unbiased & unbrainwashed as they come. So if you can't beleive my word, then you can't beleive ANYBODY'S! Especially some strange DP. Plus, I doubt anybody will let anybody else "tweak a setting" without someone else noticing or letting it happen. *smile* But hey....if you got the money...I'll hire someone like BLAIN BROWN or something. I will however pay for the actrors and everybodys lunch. - ShannonRawls.com
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Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition. |
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#7 | |
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
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Quote:
That said, you're pretty non-biased, after only the truth and great video. What I *do* wish would occur, is that people that get free goods or "long-term" loaners from camera companies would disclose that so that folks know what is what. For the record, we've purchased (as in paid cash money for) our Z1's, A1's, JVC HD 100, (we only have one) and will receive a Canon shortly on a 1 week loaner, after having had one for a previous 3 day loaner (evenings only). We've also paid for an HVX, but haven't rec'd it yet. In other words, while I'm unabashedly a huge fan of Sony Vegas, that doesn't spill over into the cameras simply because they're Sony cams. However, while VASST is non-partisan, I'm personally not. I like the Z1 (so far) more than any other low cost/entry level HD offering I've seen to date. But for the sake of conversation, the XL-H1 is very intriguing. We've had 3 of the 4 cameras in the same shoot at once, and really hoping we see our HVX soon while we've got the Canon again. For full disclosure: VASST makes conversion software for HDV VASST has a book on HDV VASST does HDV seminars sponsored by several software and hardware companies with vested interests in entry-level HD. Geez, Shannon, confession is good for the soul. :-) I feel so much better now. I do wonder though, how many guys out there get free cams, long-term loaners, or trade out cameras for endorsements. Nothing wrong with that, so long as there is disclosure or at least an understanding in the forums as to where folks are coming from. Too bad we missed you at the BandPro and VASST events last month! We had a blast.
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Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com |
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#8 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NE of London, England
Posts: 788
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Quote:
I wouldn't waste money on actors personally, no one cares about the performance, just how it is captured :) Thanks in advance Shannon. |
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#9 | ||
Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 853
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Quote:
So you mean to tell me if the Canon yields 100,000 lines of resolution and we are seeing this with our own optical eyeballs, you're saying...."don't beleive it, it was done electronically in the camera so it don't count??" LOL If a Porsche goes 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, we shouldn't beleive it because it used a Turbo to do it? If it ain't one thing, it's another. I swear, you just can't win with human beings. Nothing is ever good enough. LOL Quote:
*scratching my head* But now that you mention it.... COME TO VASST TO GET YOUR HDV CERTIFICATION! *smile* Only $59.95 or your money back! (not including shipping & handling) lolololololol Just kiddin' man. I wasn't thinking about you when I wrote that. I think when you "OWN" a camera from all manufacturers, it kinda eliminates you from being bias. However, since VASST is the poster child for the HDV format, you have to put your "WE LOVE HDV" jacket back on and wear it. Sorry, but I gotta keep it real! So NO BUDDY OLE' PAL.... you ain't Switzerland either! *smile* And thanks for the open confession. In my religion, that's the only way to get SAVED! - ShannonRawls.com
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Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition. |
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#10 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
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Quote:
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#11 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
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Need Muscle
Kevin:
If you need any muscle at this "test", I would be willing to help just to get a look at all of the rigs.. Chris Barcellos |
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#12 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NE of London, England
Posts: 788
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Quote:
I am sure Canon would know about this and also know people would test the camera in this way. Therefore it is very possible that the camera is designed to give misleadingly high res readings from a static res chart. This only applies to the "F" modes. To use your car example: I used to have a car that would do 62mph in 2nd gear and 101mph in third gear. This gave it impressive 0-60mph & 0-100mph times, so in testing it DID APPEAR faster than it really was. The gearing was designed to make it look good ON PAPER. The car was crap though :) |
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#13 |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,810
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My suggestion to you guys is that if you are going to the bother of doing the tests, put as much energy into leveling the playing field as possible. If this means bringing in a DP that can ensure that this is happening, then that's the way to go. There are many examples of test footage posted here and elsewhere on the net that is accompanied by excuses and apologies, i.e. "that shot is out of focus, whoops--I didn't use a tripod on this one so it's sort of shaky--we didn't have a monitor so we couldn't make the shots exactly the same" etc. In the interest of fairness I'll admit that I am guilty of this to an extent with the tests I did of HD100 for the article here at HDVInfo.net; there were a few mistakes or uncertainties made at the beginning while we were getting organized, so it certainly can happen. But not using a tripod? oy...
I'd even recommend taking a page from the tests that Jared and Barry do at DVXuser, mounting the cameras on a board so that they can be panned simultaneously. It's not at all out of the question for all four cameras to be mounted together on a single head (get an O'Connor 2575 from a rental house). Think how helpful that will be to evaluate motion judder seen during pans--you'll be able to run split screens to your heart's content.
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Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com |
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#14 |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hollywood, California
Posts: 899
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Shannon let me know when and where and I ma down. Itodl you I wnat to compare the HD100 w/ mini35 to some of the other cameras too. Maybe Sunday??
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#15 |
Major Player
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 853
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Ok. I'm learning. I'm new at this, so bear with me.....
Do I have this right? "RESOLUTION CHARTS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR TESTING CAMERAS ANYMORE." The results are a lie. correct? Is it just me, or does it seem like the rules of the game keep changing? - ShannonRawls.com
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Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition. |
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