fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · February 19th, 2014, 12:04 PM

So, despite my reservations about Sony expressed in another thread, I will probably still look for a used EX1r unless something wows at NAB.

One thing I've been thinking about is media, how much/what kind to buy.

Like to have 8 hours at the highest quality (35mbps/HQ) at least. Wouldn't need that often but yes, sometimes I would shoot long lecture series and transferring/erasing in the field is not fun.

So my initial thought is two 64 GB SxS cards.

Now, I have a friend/colleague who believes in more lower capacity cards (i.e. 4 32 GB cards), just due to paranoia and breaking your footage up into smaller chunks so that if a card went bad, you'd lose less. Fine in theory, problem is cost is not the same--4 32 GB cards is quite a bit more than 2 64s. So how much of a real world concern is a corrupted SxS card? Something that happens often? Hardly ever?

I realize there is also that two sided HD that plugs into the card slot and records that same amount of time, feel like I'd rather have cards 'cause a) could use hot shoe for something else, and b) could transfer one while shooting on the other if need be for some reason. Cost is about equal between that HD and two 64s, I think.

Thoughts?

Finn Yarbrough · February 19th, 2014, 01:09 PM

Sony brand SxS cards have redundancy. I have never heard of one failing in such a way that the data was not recoverable. I use SDHC cards with an SxS adapter, and I've never lost any data to those, either, despite the lack of redundancy. But I have definitely heard of data loss from that quarter before.

So if you're buying real SxS cards, I think that confidence is what you get for the extra money.

EDIT: well, actually, they don't have "redundancy," I don't know where I got that idea. But they are very reliable and recoverable.

Josh Bass · February 19th, 2014, 01:12 PM

Yeah, I'd get real SxS. Maybe the cheaper orange ones that are rated for fewer cycles (I will not be shooting daily), but real SxS.

Pete Bauer · February 19th, 2014, 05:23 PM

I'd think that risk of losing or damaging a card would be greater if one is in the habit of juggling multiple cards during an event.

A lot of the newer cameras have dual slot recording. Even though I've never had a card fail, that nagging concern drives me to use large capacity cards in dual slot mode. They go in the camera freshly formatted before I leave for a shoot, and stay in the camera until I'm ready to copy the files to my edit system and archive. (But FWIW, I happen to shoot Canon so in my case it is CF Cards, not SxS).

That's just my way of keeping it simple.

Josh Bass · February 19th, 2014, 05:26 PM

Yes, ex1r has two slots and yes i prefer to do what you said. Thats a good argument for the larger cards

Tim Polster · February 20th, 2014, 10:39 AM

You will never get a definitive answer as there is no real research for this situation, just people reporting bad experiences now and then or the fear of bad experiences.

One positive for longer recording times is it is one less thing to worry or think about during a live event shoot. This little thing might allow you to be calmer and interface with your client more and that might result in more work.

The P2 concept never worked for me.

Josh Bass · February 20th, 2014, 10:59 AM

What aspect of the concept? By all accounts avc intra etc. are great codecs. Its the file size/capacity/cost thing that kills it for me

Daniel Epstein · February 20th, 2014, 03:17 PM

Josh,
I had the same question issue about P2 cards a while back and decided it was fine to go with the larger 64G cards for recording. I try to avoid spanning two cards but that is more an organizational principle than a rule. Since you only have 2 slots on the EX1R (compared to the 5 on my HPX2000) it makes even more sense. I would try not to always record on the same card over and over while leaving the other cards relatively unused but other than that you have to trust the Sony SXS architecture or not. I wouldn't rush to buy the newest higher capacity card if it just came out but once they have been out for a whule you should be able to know if you can trust them.

Josh Bass · February 20th, 2014, 03:26 PM

I think highest capacity is 128. I was only going to get 64s, which arent that new i dont think. Good point about alternating cards

Tim Polster · February 20th, 2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

What aspect of the concept? By all accounts avc intra etc. are great codecs. Its the file size/capacity/cost thing that kills it for me

Yes, AVC-Intra is great. It was just idea that the P2 memory was so expensive (and small in the early stages) that you would not have hours of record time going to a gig. You would need to off load footage in the middle of a job and to me, that negates any iron clad realibility due to possible user error in the heat of the moment.

Daniel Epstein · February 21st, 2014, 12:54 PM

Getting a bit off topic but I have used the P2 concept a lot over the years once the card capacity got over 32Gigs. The advantage of the bigger p2 Card cameras with higher capacity cards was the number of slots allowed for longer record times. I was happier using my P2 for recording live events than when I used Sony XDCAM disc cameras for events. 5 hours in camera continuos recording time was more than enough. The cost difference of P2 vs SXS was not much of a deterrent. Cheaper faster transfer systems would make me happier. Real reason I see Panasonic and P2 losing ground is the sensor size battle and cameras using other media forms.

February 19th, 2014, 12:04 PM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards So, despite my reservations about Sony expressed in another thread, I will probably still look for a used EX1r unless something wows at NAB. One thing I've been thinking about is media, how much/what kind to buy. Like to have 8 hours at the highest quality (35mbps/HQ) at least. Wouldn't need that often but yes, sometimes I would shoot long lecture series and transferring/erasing in the field is not fun. So my initial thought is two 64 GB SxS cards. Now, I have a friend/colleague who believes in more lower capacity cards (i.e. 4 32 GB cards), just due to paranoia and breaking your footage up into smaller chunks so that if a card went bad, you'd lose less. Fine in theory, problem is cost is not the same--4 32 GB cards is quite a bit more than 2 64s. So how much of a real world concern is a corrupted SxS card? Something that happens often? Hardly ever? I realize there is also that two sided HD that plugs into the card slot and records that same amount of time, feel like I'd rather have cards 'cause a) could use hot shoe for something else, and b) could transfer one while shooting on the other if need be for some reason. Cost is about equal between that HD and two 64s, I think. Thoughts? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 19th, 2014, 01:09 PM	#2
Finn Yarbrough Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ferrisburgh, VT Posts: 179	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards Sony brand SxS cards have redundancy. I have never heard of one failing in such a way that the data was not recoverable. I use SDHC cards with an SxS adapter, and I've never lost any data to those, either, despite the lack of redundancy. But I have definitely heard of data loss from that quarter before. So if you're buying real SxS cards, I think that confidence is what you get for the extra money. EDIT: well, actually, they don't have "redundancy," I don't know where I got that idea. But they are very reliable and recoverable. __________________ http://www.earthhouseproductions.com

February 19th, 2014, 01:12 PM	#3
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards Yeah, I'd get real SxS. Maybe the cheaper orange ones that are rated for fewer cycles (I will not be shooting daily), but real SxS. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 19th, 2014, 05:23 PM	#4
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards I'd think that risk of losing or damaging a card would be greater if one is in the habit of juggling multiple cards during an event. A lot of the newer cameras have dual slot recording. Even though I've never had a card fail, that nagging concern drives me to use large capacity cards in dual slot mode. They go in the camera freshly formatted before I leave for a shoot, and stay in the camera until I'm ready to copy the files to my edit system and archive. (But FWIW, I happen to shoot Canon so in my case it is CF Cards, not SxS). That's just my way of keeping it simple. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

February 19th, 2014, 05:26 PM	#5
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards Yes, ex1r has two slots and yes i prefer to do what you said. Thats a good argument for the larger cards __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 20th, 2014, 10:39 AM	#6
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards You will never get a definitive answer as there is no real research for this situation, just people reporting bad experiences now and then or the fear of bad experiences. One positive for longer recording times is it is one less thing to worry or think about during a live event shoot. This little thing might allow you to be calmer and interface with your client more and that might result in more work. The P2 concept never worked for me.

February 20th, 2014, 10:59 AM	#7
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards What aspect of the concept? By all accounts avc intra etc. are great codecs. Its the file size/capacity/cost thing that kills it for me __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 20th, 2014, 03:17 PM	#8
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards Josh, I had the same question issue about P2 cards a while back and decided it was fine to go with the larger 64G cards for recording. I try to avoid spanning two cards but that is more an organizational principle than a rule. Since you only have 2 slots on the EX1R (compared to the 5 on my HPX2000) it makes even more sense. I would try not to always record on the same card over and over while leaving the other cards relatively unused but other than that you have to trust the Sony SXS architecture or not. I wouldn't rush to buy the newest higher capacity card if it just came out but once they have been out for a whule you should be able to know if you can trust them.

February 20th, 2014, 03:26 PM	#9
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards I think highest capacity is 128. I was only going to get 64s, which arent that new i dont think. Good point about alternating cards __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 21st, 2014, 12:54 PM	#11
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Re: fewer high capcity cards vs more low capacity cards Getting a bit off topic but I have used the P2 concept a lot over the years once the card capacity got over 32Gigs. The advantage of the bigger p2 Card cameras with higher capacity cards was the number of slots allowed for longer record times. I was happier using my P2 for recording live events than when I used Sony XDCAM disc cameras for events. 5 hours in camera continuos recording time was more than enough. The cost difference of P2 vs SXS was not much of a deterrent. Cheaper faster transfer systems would make me happier. Real reason I see Panasonic and P2 losing ground is the sensor size battle and cameras using other media forms.