Start project - 25fps/ 23.98 international project at DVinfo.net

James Baker · February 4th, 2014, 10:32 AM

Hello, apologies upfront for something that may have been covered elsewhere, I appreciate any help that can be given.
I'm starting a project that's split between UK and US, at this point we're not sure where the edit will take place or if we are aiming for a theatrical release or televisual release. There will be shooting in UK, US Norway and other parts of Europe. I'm wanting some advice ( a worldview) about what the best frame rate will be to work from. Pal 25fps or Ntsc 23.98? Would there be any advantages to working one over the other, does 25fps given us more leeway if we decide to try make a film for theatrical release?
We're looking to shoot on c300's and the like.
Thanks in advance.
All the very best
James

David Heath · February 4th, 2014, 07:09 PM

If most of the SHOOTING is in European countries, I'd tend to say 25fps as you'll have much less trouble with lights flickering in shot.

It may be an influence if which of US or European distribution was known to be more likely, when there's obviously sense in going with the framerate most native to that area. If that's not certain, or final use is likely to be 50:50 (it's equally likely you may have to speed 24fps up to 25fps, as slow 25 to 24) then I'd go with a framerate related to the mains of the area you're filming in. Especially true if a lot of fluorescent or street lights.

And 25fps timecode is far easier to work with than 23.98.........

Shaun Roemich · February 4th, 2014, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

If most of the SHOOTING is in European countries, I'd tend to say 25fps as you'll have much less trouble with lights flickering in shot.

Frame rate has nothing to do with light flicker, shutter speed does.

If shooting NTSC in a PAL country, use a inverse factor of 50 for shutter speed (1/50, 1/100 etc)

If shooting PAL in an NTSC country, use a inverse factor of 60 for shutter speed (1/50, 1/100 etc)

Which doesn't answer the OPS's question but responds to David's suggestion.

David Heath · February 5th, 2014, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Frame rate has nothing to do with light flicker, shutter speed does.

Which is quite true - but practically, it may depend on what equipment is being used, can the shutter speed be varied independently of frame rate?

Even if it can, then if there's no other reason for going for one framerate or the other, it makes life simpler to have a direct relationship between framerate/mains frequency. Using shutter angle to control flicker can also have a slight impact on overall sensitivity.

Brian Drysdale · February 6th, 2014, 03:15 AM

23.98 fps is regarded as the universal frame rate by the US studios and is used by many of the US TV dramas. This probably is due to them using 24 fps when shooting film for TV, so everything is in place for international sales. In the 25fps countries they usually just run at the faster frame rate and do a pitch change to correct the audio.

You need to set the correct shutter angle in the UK, the big advantage with 25 fps would be if you were filming CRT televisions.

This reminds me of a 16 mm documentary we shot in NY, which was mostly shot at 25 fps, but some scenes were filmed at 24fps to avoid flicker. You couldn't change the shutter angle on the camera.

February 4th, 2014, 10:32 AM	#1
James Baker Tourist Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: brooklyn, ny Posts: 1	Start project - 25fps/ 23.98 international project Hello, apologies upfront for something that may have been covered elsewhere, I appreciate any help that can be given. I'm starting a project that's split between UK and US, at this point we're not sure where the edit will take place or if we are aiming for a theatrical release or televisual release. There will be shooting in UK, US Norway and other parts of Europe. I'm wanting some advice ( a worldview) about what the best frame rate will be to work from. Pal 25fps or Ntsc 23.98? Would there be any advantages to working one over the other, does 25fps given us more leeway if we decide to try make a film for theatrical release? We're looking to shoot on c300's and the like. Thanks in advance. All the very best James

February 4th, 2014, 07:09 PM	#2
David Heath Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,699	Re: Start project - 25fps/ 23.98 international project If most of the SHOOTING is in European countries, I'd tend to say 25fps as you'll have much less trouble with lights flickering in shot. It may be an influence if which of US or European distribution was known to be more likely, when there's obviously sense in going with the framerate most native to that area. If that's not certain, or final use is likely to be 50:50 (it's equally likely you may have to speed 24fps up to 25fps, as slow 25 to 24) then I'd go with a framerate related to the mains of the area you're filming in. Especially true if a lot of fluorescent or street lights. And 25fps timecode is far easier to work with than 23.98.........

February 6th, 2014, 03:15 AM	#5
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Start project - 25fps/ 23.98 international project 23.98 fps is regarded as the universal frame rate by the US studios and is used by many of the US TV dramas. This probably is due to them using 24 fps when shooting film for TV, so everything is in place for international sales. In the 25fps countries they usually just run at the faster frame rate and do a pitch change to correct the audio. You need to set the correct shutter angle in the UK, the big advantage with 25 fps would be if you were filming CRT televisions. This reminds me of a 16 mm documentary we shot in NY, which was mostly shot at 25 fps, but some scenes were filmed at 24fps to avoid flicker. You couldn't change the shutter angle on the camera.