Is this correct? at DVinfo.net

Oliver Darden · December 26th, 2010, 09:55 PM

I did some shooting of some artwork for a job I'm doing, and the video seems to shudder a little when panning / tracking. I'm not sure if "shuttering" is the correct term but the footage just doesn't look fluid and smooth to me when filming across the painting. Looks a bit jerky.

I'm using a Canon T2i shooting 1920 x 1080. My FCP settings and compression settings are at the end of the video.

Thanks,
Oliver

Sareesh Sudhakaran · December 26th, 2010, 10:07 PM

Maybe you know this already but try these:

Tip for Steady Panning and Tilting DSLR Video

and
My Observations on Reducing Moiré Pattern for DSLR Video

You're going to have trouble shooting closely packed lines with any sort of video gear. These are limitations inherent in the technology itself.

Oliver Darden · December 27th, 2010, 10:26 AM

I will check those links out, thanks Sareesh.

John Wiley · December 27th, 2010, 09:08 PM

It doesn't look smooth for a number of reasons - the tripod itself does not seem to move terrible smoothly, and it's pan speed changes which draws attention the movement. There's also a few seconds where there is very little image detail to look at. The eye doesn't know where to focus on an empty image so we are more alert to any little things like image shake because we are not concentrating on or distracted by anything in particular. Along with that you're battling the judder of 24p video - this is easily combated by slowing your pan down a little.

In this instance though, your best solution would be to photogprah the image at 18mp (seeing as you already had your DSLR with you!) and then pan and zoom in post.

Oliver Darden · December 28th, 2010, 07:35 PM

Taking a picture would be the best I think as well.

So 24p usually has a judder?

Thanks for your input John.

Ron Evans · December 29th, 2010, 08:15 PM

24P always has the potential for judder because the exposure rate is so slow. That is why most movie film is composed of fixed shots, close shots with background out of focus ( so you can't see the judder) all techniques to disguise the judder. Lots of books and training on proper film shooting technique. Remember 24 fps was an economic decision not art or technology. It was the slowest film rate for acceptable optical sound thus resulting in the minimum duplication and transportation of film packs to the cinemas for distribution. To make matters worse it cannot really be shown on normal 60hz or 50hz TV's the field order has to be modified into the 3:2 cadence( for NTSC) which is what most people view as the film look on TV. Doesn't look anything like film in the cinema. To view 24p on a TV the playback and TV must be able to correctly display 24p. This is really limited to Bluray over HDMI to TV's that have refresh rates that are a multiple of 24 AND will respond correctly in displaying 24 fps. A film projector not only pulls down the film at 24 fps but also has a 3 or 5 blade shutter that interrupts the projection resulting in an image being displayed at 72 or 120 images a second. This takes the flicker rate up above 60 meaning the image looks stable to people.

Shooting 24p is good if the intent is to master to film for projection. For electronic playback 30 or 60p would be a better choice for progressive shooting.

You may be better off shooting a still image and then doing the pan in editing.

Ron Evans

Oliver Darden · January 3rd, 2011, 03:06 AM

Thanks for the info Ron.

December 26th, 2010, 09:55 PM	#1
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Is this correct? I did some shooting of some artwork for a job I'm doing, and the video seems to shudder a little when panning / tracking. I'm not sure if "shuttering" is the correct term but the footage just doesn't look fluid and smooth to me when filming across the painting. Looks a bit jerky. I'm using a Canon T2i shooting 1920 x 1080. My FCP settings and compression settings are at the end of the video. Untitled on Vimeo Thanks, Oliver

December 26th, 2010, 10:07 PM	#2
Sareesh Sudhakaran Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 1,385	Maybe you know this already but try these: Tip for Steady Panning and Tilting DSLR Video and My Observations on Reducing Moiré Pattern for DSLR Video You're going to have trouble shooting closely packed lines with any sort of video gear. These are limitations inherent in the technology itself. __________________ Get the Free Comprehensive Guide to Rigging ANY Camera - one guide to rig them all - DSLRs to the Arri Alexa.

December 27th, 2010, 10:26 AM	#3
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	I will check those links out, thanks Sareesh.

December 27th, 2010, 09:08 PM	#4
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	It doesn't look smooth for a number of reasons - the tripod itself does not seem to move terrible smoothly, and it's pan speed changes which draws attention the movement. There's also a few seconds where there is very little image detail to look at. The eye doesn't know where to focus on an empty image so we are more alert to any little things like image shake because we are not concentrating on or distracted by anything in particular. Along with that you're battling the judder of 24p video - this is easily combated by slowing your pan down a little. In this instance though, your best solution would be to photogprah the image at 18mp (seeing as you already had your DSLR with you!) and then pan and zoom in post.

December 28th, 2010, 07:35 PM	#5
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Taking a picture would be the best I think as well. So 24p usually has a judder? Thanks for your input John.

December 29th, 2010, 08:15 PM	#6
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	24P always has the potential for judder because the exposure rate is so slow. That is why most movie film is composed of fixed shots, close shots with background out of focus ( so you can't see the judder) all techniques to disguise the judder. Lots of books and training on proper film shooting technique. Remember 24 fps was an economic decision not art or technology. It was the slowest film rate for acceptable optical sound thus resulting in the minimum duplication and transportation of film packs to the cinemas for distribution. To make matters worse it cannot really be shown on normal 60hz or 50hz TV's the field order has to be modified into the 3:2 cadence( for NTSC) which is what most people view as the film look on TV. Doesn't look anything like film in the cinema. To view 24p on a TV the playback and TV must be able to correctly display 24p. This is really limited to Bluray over HDMI to TV's that have refresh rates that are a multiple of 24 AND will respond correctly in displaying 24 fps. A film projector not only pulls down the film at 24 fps but also has a 3 or 5 blade shutter that interrupts the projection resulting in an image being displayed at 72 or 120 images a second. This takes the flicker rate up above 60 meaning the image looks stable to people. Shooting 24p is good if the intent is to master to film for projection. For electronic playback 30 or 60p would be a better choice for progressive shooting. You may be better off shooting a still image and then doing the pan in editing. Ron Evans

January 3rd, 2011, 03:06 AM	#7
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Thanks for the info Ron.