WHats better; Shooting 108060i vs 108030p for Broadcast at 720p60p at DVinfo.net

Tyson Persall · February 23rd, 2010, 04:15 AM

I am working for a show that will end up broadcasting all of its sports material at 720p. I have recently learned that that means they broadcast at 720p 60p since 60p is the best for motion rendition of sports programing.

That being said we need to shoot certain B-Roll footage of interviews with small AVCHD cameras that only shoot in 1920x1080 in 24p, 30p or 60i.

A producer instructed me to be shooting in 30p but i do not believed this to be the correct way to shoot material for this show. I believe we should be shooting in 60i, even though the end result will be a progressive broadcast. The problem is that the 30p material will not have the smooth motion perception that 60i would have. 30p would not show fast moving objects as well as 60i would. 30p aesthetically would seem wrong for this show as it would be almost a variant of "film like" look. A miss match from the other material in the show being video like. THe majority of the show is shot at 720p6op native. Now since we don't have the option for acquisition at 60p for our B-roll material we should shoot 1080i 60i and render interlaced to progressive to 720p60p for final broadcast. That makes the most sense to me. Anyone care to disagree. Id like to use this posting to prove my point.
__________________
Tyson X

Craig Parkes · February 23rd, 2010, 04:25 AM

You are correct - a proper post workflow downrezzing the interlaced footage to a 60P stream would deliver better temporal qualities in exchange for a reduction in resolution

Michael Wisniewski · February 23rd, 2010, 04:41 AM

You do have a case if you were shooting fast moving sports, but, it won't make much difference if you're doing mostly static interview shots and B-Roll shots. Additionally, there may be a case to be made to use 30p for example, maybe to avoid combing and interlacing artifacts when mixing with 60p footage.

By the way I know your boss.

Okay just kidding ... I don't.

Tim Polster · February 23rd, 2010, 02:46 PM

I would say that for interviews if the camera will not be moving 1080p30 would end up being sharper once it goes to 702p60.

Since interviews look better at a slower framerate imho, the framerate difference would not be that big of an issue in the final product.

I would do a test doing it both ways and see what you or the producer likes the best.

Rainer Listing · February 24th, 2010, 04:30 AM

My opinion - you are correct, but might need more information, since over the last few years terminology has become confused. My guess is they probably intend broadcasting NTSC standard, which is (near enough) 30i framesps, which is actually equivalent to 60p (displaced one ignored horizontal pixel) half resolution fieldsps.

Stas Bobkov · February 24th, 2010, 05:00 PM

60i is the way to go.
30p will look noticeably different from 60p, that is something we want to avoid in a multicam production.

Tim Polster · February 24th, 2010, 05:16 PM

I re-read your ost and I am sorry, I was thinking you were shooting the interviews to be put in a program that will be 60p.

I now read it like you will be shooting the b-roll for the interviews which means you will be moving the camera.

I then agree, 60i is the best match.

February 23rd, 2010, 04:15 AM	#1
Tyson Persall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: North Hollywood, Atlanta Posts: 437	WHats better; Shooting 108060i vs 108030p for Broadcast at 720p60p I am working for a show that will end up broadcasting all of its sports material at 720p. I have recently learned that that means they broadcast at 720p 60p since 60p is the best for motion rendition of sports programing. That being said we need to shoot certain B-Roll footage of interviews with small AVCHD cameras that only shoot in 1920x1080 in 24p, 30p or 60i. A producer instructed me to be shooting in 30p but i do not believed this to be the correct way to shoot material for this show. I believe we should be shooting in 60i, even though the end result will be a progressive broadcast. The problem is that the 30p material will not have the smooth motion perception that 60i would have. 30p would not show fast moving objects as well as 60i would. 30p aesthetically would seem wrong for this show as it would be almost a variant of "film like" look. A miss match from the other material in the show being video like. THe majority of the show is shot at 720p6op native. Now since we don't have the option for acquisition at 60p for our B-roll material we should shoot 1080i 60i and render interlaced to progressive to 720p60p for final broadcast. That makes the most sense to me. Anyone care to disagree. Id like to use this posting to prove my point. __________________ Tyson X __________________ Tyson X

February 23rd, 2010, 04:25 AM	#2
Craig Parkes Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 444	You are correct - a proper post workflow downrezzing the interlaced footage to a 60P stream would deliver better temporal qualities in exchange for a reduction in resolution __________________ www.afterglow.co.nz

February 23rd, 2010, 04:41 AM	#3
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	You do have a case if you were shooting fast moving sports, but, it won't make much difference if you're doing mostly static interview shots and B-Roll shots. Additionally, there may be a case to be made to use 30p for example, maybe to avoid combing and interlacing artifacts when mixing with 60p footage. By the way I know your boss. Okay just kidding ... I don't. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

February 23rd, 2010, 02:46 PM	#4
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I would say that for interviews if the camera will not be moving 1080p30 would end up being sharper once it goes to 702p60. Since interviews look better at a slower framerate imho, the framerate difference would not be that big of an issue in the final product. I would do a test doing it both ways and see what you or the producer likes the best.

February 24th, 2010, 04:30 AM	#5
Rainer Listing Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Nowra, Australia Posts: 440	My opinion - you are correct, but might need more information, since over the last few years terminology has become confused. My guess is they probably intend broadcasting NTSC standard, which is (near enough) 30i framesps, which is actually equivalent to 60p (displaced one ignored horizontal pixel) half resolution fieldsps.

February 24th, 2010, 05:00 PM	#6
Stas Bobkov Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada Posts: 46	60i is the way to go. 30p will look noticeably different from 60p, that is something we want to avoid in a multicam production.

February 24th, 2010, 05:16 PM	#7
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I re-read your ost and I am sorry, I was thinking you were shooting the interviews to be put in a program that will be 60p. I now read it like you will be shooting the b-roll for the interviews which means you will be moving the camera. I then agree, 60i is the best match.