shouldn't PAL be dead?

Sergio Perez · July 25th, 2005, 03:14 AM

This really seems like a very well informed discussion. Now talking about refresh rates, isn't doubling the refresh rate for a signal that is only broadcasted at 50i actually degrading overall viewing of the picture, or "upsampling"the image? I say this because I have a professional sony crt monitor displaying at 50i, and a Panasonic 1080i ready crt tv, and while the picture does looks brighter in the Panasonic, you canvery well see much more pixelization and overall picture imperfection compared to the sony monitor, much like a uprezed video.

My footage shot with a dvx100a just seems much more correct and solid viewed on a 50i monitor than on a 100hz capable tv. I've tested this with old sony triniton tv's vs the new ones, and it indeeds makes a very big difference. Brighter at 100hz, but picture imperfection everywhere.

Anyone care to explain this phenomenon?

Jos Svendsen · July 26th, 2005, 09:16 AM

Nice discussion, but you all forget one thing - refresh rates are irrelevant for plasma and LCD tv's. They are all progresive devices, that uses a framestore for building the picture. Then they determine what pixels should be changed, and change only those pixels.

The may buffer several consecutive frames, and interpolate the final picture from those. This is the reason why a flat tv usually delays the picture 10 to 20 frames. This can be noticed if you have a ldc tv with speakers hooked up to a surround system. Turn the speakers up, while you play a DVD on the surroundsystem, and notice the delay in sound. The sound from the build in speakers are delayed to be in sync with the picture, but the sound from the DVD played on the surround system are not, so you'll get a delay effect.

Here in PAL-world the 720p versus SD is a little different as a prime quality enhanced PAL signal is not that different to 720p for a consumer. Espcially not on average grade plasmas. Here it is a big problem that the cheapers tv's DSP is usually bad at resizing the picture. It is very different if the player delivers a signal withe the right resolution to the display. This is the case if you use a one of better DVD-players or a pc. This gives a much better quality.

And this leads me to belive that Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 can be very important in gettings HD to us PAL's, as these devices can play native HD-video.

July 25th, 2005, 03:14 AM	#31
Sergio Perez Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 331	This really seems like a very well informed discussion. Now talking about refresh rates, isn't doubling the refresh rate for a signal that is only broadcasted at 50i actually degrading overall viewing of the picture, or "upsampling"the image? I say this because I have a professional sony crt monitor displaying at 50i, and a Panasonic 1080i ready crt tv, and while the picture does looks brighter in the Panasonic, you canvery well see much more pixelization and overall picture imperfection compared to the sony monitor, much like a uprezed video. My footage shot with a dvx100a just seems much more correct and solid viewed on a 50i monitor than on a 100hz capable tv. I've tested this with old sony triniton tv's vs the new ones, and it indeeds makes a very big difference. Brighter at 100hz, but picture imperfection everywhere. Anyone care to explain this phenomenon? __________________ If you don't believe in your film, no one else will.

July 26th, 2005, 09:16 AM	#32
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	Just a squirp from PAL-wold Nice discussion, but you all forget one thing - refresh rates are irrelevant for plasma and LCD tv's. They are all progresive devices, that uses a framestore for building the picture. Then they determine what pixels should be changed, and change only those pixels. The may buffer several consecutive frames, and interpolate the final picture from those. This is the reason why a flat tv usually delays the picture 10 to 20 frames. This can be noticed if you have a ldc tv with speakers hooked up to a surround system. Turn the speakers up, while you play a DVD on the surroundsystem, and notice the delay in sound. The sound from the build in speakers are delayed to be in sync with the picture, but the sound from the DVD played on the surround system are not, so you'll get a delay effect. Here in PAL-world the 720p versus SD is a little different as a prime quality enhanced PAL signal is not that different to 720p for a consumer. Espcially not on average grade plasmas. Here it is a big problem that the cheapers tv's DSP is usually bad at resizing the picture. It is very different if the player delivers a signal withe the right resolution to the display. This is the case if you use a one of better DVD-players or a pc. This gives a much better quality. And this leads me to belive that Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 can be very important in gettings HD to us PAL's, as these devices can play native HD-video.