JVC HM 100 vs Panasonic HMC 40

Robert Rogoz · October 15th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Ron, I own HM100, and I also filmed with EX1 on some recent shots. Although HM100 produces nice picture, but is a far cry as far as "pro" camera. Although they use a Porsche engine (XD CAM codec), but the body is more of the crappy beater car. The shutter/ aperture control is a joke, you can place a filter on a lens, no safe shooting area marking on the display, not even 1/120s shutter for 720/60 shooting- just basic. The zoom is by far the worst- much worst then any consumer camcorder I ever used. For 3500 it should have been a much better product.

Doug Tessler · October 16th, 2009, 04:20 AM

Hi Ron I have the HM 100 and its a fantastic camera . I used it in 4 jobs and all the clients are more than satisfied with it . I f you would like to see some of the footage I shot let me know .
I notice you live in Boca too .

Doug

Ron Wilk · October 16th, 2009, 01:11 PM

Hi Doug:

Nice to hear from someone local.
I appreciate your offer and may be contacting you to have a look, depending upon my upcoming experience with the HPX 170, which, at the current time is my first choice.

Douglas Call · October 18th, 2009, 07:11 AM

Ron did you eventually buy the Panasonic HPX 170? I also live down here in south florida (hollywood) I use to shoot runway fashion, celebrity and interview type videos in SD with my Ikegami HL-DV7AW. that sucker is way to big to carry around now as I'm get older. I also am looking for a nice HD camera but I was thinking about the new ACVHD or the new Panasonic AVC-Intra codecs.

I also wanted to have a camera hand holdable to take traveling and on sailing events here in south florida. I was in Switzerland and France and would have loved to had smaller pro camera to shoot with. I would have had to store everything to my laptop and do the process when I got home though.

Ron Wilk · October 18th, 2009, 08:28 AM

Hi Douglas:

No, I have yet to make the purchase, am waiting to see what Sony's "big announcement" brings this Tuesday. But barring their release of a new camera with the 170's ergonomics, I will most likely be placing an order shortly.
Like you, I find that age (and infirmity) is beginning to take its toll and carrying around a heavy camera (Ex3 with rods, matt box, Anton Bauer, etc.), shoulder mount or otherwise, is no longer appealing and for that reason as well as those you have already mentioned, I have been searching for something that is light, easy to hold, tapeless and that does not require too greater or any real world sacrifice in image quality. The list is quite short, indeed, and the only two that seem to fit the bill are the Panasonic HPX 150 or 170. I am aware of the smaller JVC HM100 and Panasonic HMC 40 but I am not thrilled by the 1/4" chips and I really do not need another CMOS camera, as I plan on keeping the EX3 for tripod use. After reading through this thread and probably others, you can see that there are a host of opinions vis-a-vis the aforementioned models and, no doubt, many of them contain valid criticisms of all the various models but in the end, the decision should be based upon individual needs and the compromises one is willing or unwilling to accept. From my perspective, I would rather own a quality piece of equipment with good imaging capability that I will not hesitate to carry around rather than a behemoth with arguably superior resolution that I tend to leave behind due to its weight and size. It is with the same logic and goals that I, years ago, subscribed to the Leica M series of cameras and although I currently own a Canon 1 DS MK II, I can truthfully say that it hasn't left the shelf in over a year, whereas, my Leica M8 frequently sees the light of day... or night.

Douglas Call · October 18th, 2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wilk

I have yet to make the purchase, am waiting to see what Sony's "big announcement" brings this Tuesday.

thanks for that info I can't wait to see what's up with Sony also. I did look at some of their consumer cams but decided the feature sets and lack of XLR inputs turned me off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wilk

It is with the same logic and goals that I, years ago, subscribed to the Leica M series of cameras and although I currently own a Canon 1 DS MK II, I can truthfully say that it hasn't left the shelf in over a year, whereas, my Leica M8 frequently sees the light of day... or night.

I have the Canon EOS 5D Mk II and the 85mm F1.2 mk II that I carry around with me locally (Fashion Shoots, beach or beautiful locations) but when I travel like you it's always the Canon G10 (in my case) because lugging around the 5D with two or three lenses is just a pain.

Robert Rogoz · October 18th, 2009, 10:57 PM

Ron, a week ago I went again into the North Cascades and shot some stock footage with my HM100. Like I said, this camera produces a very good, and quality picture, with very good colors, however it also has some limitations. I used in on Mt Rainier (14 500ft) in August and the size is perfect for such applications. If you agree you that you are overpaying for this cam and learn how to shoot with this limitations (mainly a lack of workable zoom) and you have a bigger cam as your A camera, then you should be happy with HM100.
Also don't count on customer support. Judging by zero response by JVC on this web page to repeated requests regarding firmware updates on HM100, I would not hold your breath if this camera will start falling apart on you and you need help.

Ron Wilk · October 19th, 2009, 07:57 AM

Good Morning Robert:

Thank you for the heads-up. I have had prior experience with JVC products, GMY HD-250U which I traded for a new EX3, and I am aware of the build quality issues and it is in part for that reason that I am not considering the HM100, nor am I considering the HMC 40 due to the 1/4" chips.
I had planned on coming back with a comparison review of comparable footage recorded with both the Ex3 and HPX 170 but due to scheduling difficulties it was not possible but will be in the near future. That said, however, there really is no logical reason for doing a direct comparison given that the whole purpose behind my quest for a second camera lies in the desire for something smaller that retains the features that I deem necessary for such a device. When one takes that simple fact into consideration, all of the discussions and pontifications regarding the technical differences between, for example, the EX3 and 170 quickly become moot. No one would argue with the statement suggesting that the Panasonic AG HPXX-300 is more technologically advanced than the 170 while presenting with a sale price not too distant from the latter, but one is a shoulder mounted camera and the other is hand holdable... hardly comparable when portability is the primary consideration and with that in mind, the only camcorders that seem to fill that bill are the Panasonic 150 and 170. Will something more capable come to light in the near term future? Most likely, but barring something of bombastic nature, that meets my criteria, coming out of Sony's upcoming announcement, I will most likely be ordering a 170.

Chris Rademacher · October 20th, 2009, 08:45 AM

Hey guys,

I just realized to my surprise that all of these low light videos I posted were shot with the gain set at 24db. To me, from the statements I've read, you don't want to go above 12db, so after reading the manual and figuring out how to change it, the rest of my videos were shot with the max at 12db. But, the following videos were shot in full auto, auto gain control, and because of the low light I'm suspecting all at 24db:

YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Low Light Test #1
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Low Light Test #2
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 30p Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 24p Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 30p Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 24p Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 HA1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 HG1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - 50 & 25% Slow Motion Raining Car Action #2
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - 50 & 25% Slow Motion Raining Car Action
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - 75% Slow Motion Raining Car Action
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - Raining Car Action
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog #2
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p Shutter Speed & Slow Motion Test
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p Handheld Low Light, Rain, & Fog
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 HE1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog

I don't think the above videos look bad at all at 24db, personally. What do you guys think?

Here's the rest of the videos shot with the gain maxed out at 12db, but these aren't all shot in the dark like the above ones. These you'l notice are tests of the gain, shutter speeds, auto gain control vs. manual gain control, digital zoom, white balance, and chroma levels, as well.

YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/2000 Shutter, Manual Gain 0-12db
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/1000 Shutter, Manual Gain 0-12db
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/500 Shutter, F7.2 - 12db Gain
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/250 Shutter, F11 - 0 db Gain
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/120 Shutter, F11 - 0db Gain
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - Full Auto, Manually Adjusting Iris Dial
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - AGC Vs. MGC 1/2000 Shutter
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - AGC Vs. MGC 1/1000 Shutter
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/2000 Shutter Speed, High Gain to 34 db
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - Auto White Balance Presets
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Digital Zoom Test
YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Chroma Levels from -7 to +7 = Saturation

All of the above videos are being uploaded here: UTV REPORT for download if you want the uncompressed files to watch on your computer versus YouTube. The dates of 10/12, 10/14, and 10/15 are all shot using 24db gain. And, 10/18 are the ones listed immediately above this text.

All of the videos aren't uploaded to the server yet, but I think all the 10/18 ones are already. The others are uploaded as we speak. You'l also notice that the videos on 10/18 are much larger than the rest. The reason for this is I outputted them from Adobe Premier at full 21mbps, instead of 6 mbps for all the rest. I can't tell much difference...can you guys? I'm not sure it's worth the extra size, download and upload time personally. I've found too that the best way to play these to see issues is at full screen, not the standard YouTube size.

I hope this helps...if anyone has any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. These were things I wanted to know before buying the HMC40, but I couldn't find out there, so I bought it. :)

Chris

October 16th, 2009, 04:20 AM	#17
Doug Tessler Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BOCa raton fl Posts: 342	hi Ron Hi Ron I have the HM 100 and its a fantastic camera . I used it in 4 jobs and all the clients are more than satisfied with it . I f you would like to see some of the footage I shot let me know . I notice you live in Boca too . Doug

October 18th, 2009, 07:11 AM	#19
Douglas Call Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 302	Did you buy the HPX 170? Ron did you eventually buy the Panasonic HPX 170? I also live down here in south florida (hollywood) I use to shoot runway fashion, celebrity and interview type videos in SD with my Ikegami HL-DV7AW. that sucker is way to big to carry around now as I'm get older. I also am looking for a nice HD camera but I was thinking about the new ACVHD or the new Panasonic AVC-Intra codecs. I also wanted to have a camera hand holdable to take traveling and on sailing events here in south florida. I was in Switzerland and France and would have loved to had smaller pro camera to shoot with. I would have had to store everything to my laptop and do the process when I got home though.

October 15th, 2009, 09:51 PM	#16
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	Ron, I own HM100, and I also filmed with EX1 on some recent shots. Although HM100 produces nice picture, but is a far cry as far as "pro" camera. Although they use a Porsche engine (XD CAM codec), but the body is more of the crappy beater car. The shutter/ aperture control is a joke, you can place a filter on a lens, no safe shooting area marking on the display, not even 1/120s shutter for 720/60 shooting- just basic. The zoom is by far the worst- much worst then any consumer camcorder I ever used. For 3500 it should have been a much better product.

October 16th, 2009, 01:11 PM	#18
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	Hi Doug: Nice to hear from someone local. I appreciate your offer and may be contacting you to have a look, depending upon my upcoming experience with the HPX 170, which, at the current time is my first choice.

October 18th, 2009, 08:28 AM	#20
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	Hi Douglas: No, I have yet to make the purchase, am waiting to see what Sony's "big announcement" brings this Tuesday. But barring their release of a new camera with the 170's ergonomics, I will most likely be placing an order shortly. Like you, I find that age (and infirmity) is beginning to take its toll and carrying around a heavy camera (Ex3 with rods, matt box, Anton Bauer, etc.), shoulder mount or otherwise, is no longer appealing and for that reason as well as those you have already mentioned, I have been searching for something that is light, easy to hold, tapeless and that does not require too greater or any real world sacrifice in image quality. The list is quite short, indeed, and the only two that seem to fit the bill are the Panasonic HPX 150 or 170. I am aware of the smaller JVC HM100 and Panasonic HMC 40 but I am not thrilled by the 1/4" chips and I really do not need another CMOS camera, as I plan on keeping the EX3 for tripod use. After reading through this thread and probably others, you can see that there are a host of opinions vis-a-vis the aforementioned models and, no doubt, many of them contain valid criticisms of all the various models but in the end, the decision should be based upon individual needs and the compromises one is willing or unwilling to accept. From my perspective, I would rather own a quality piece of equipment with good imaging capability that I will not hesitate to carry around rather than a behemoth with arguably superior resolution that I tend to leave behind due to its weight and size. It is with the same logic and goals that I, years ago, subscribed to the Leica M series of cameras and although I currently own a Canon 1 DS MK II, I can truthfully say that it hasn't left the shelf in over a year, whereas, my Leica M8 frequently sees the light of day... or night.

October 18th, 2009, 10:57 PM	#22
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	Ron, a week ago I went again into the North Cascades and shot some stock footage with my HM100. Like I said, this camera produces a very good, and quality picture, with very good colors, however it also has some limitations. I used in on Mt Rainier (14 500ft) in August and the size is perfect for such applications. If you agree you that you are overpaying for this cam and learn how to shoot with this limitations (mainly a lack of workable zoom) and you have a bigger cam as your A camera, then you should be happy with HM100. Also don't count on customer support. Judging by zero response by JVC on this web page to repeated requests regarding firmware updates on HM100, I would not hold your breath if this camera will start falling apart on you and you need help.

October 19th, 2009, 07:57 AM	#23
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	Good Morning Robert: Thank you for the heads-up. I have had prior experience with JVC products, GMY HD-250U which I traded for a new EX3, and I am aware of the build quality issues and it is in part for that reason that I am not considering the HM100, nor am I considering the HMC 40 due to the 1/4" chips. I had planned on coming back with a comparison review of comparable footage recorded with both the Ex3 and HPX 170 but due to scheduling difficulties it was not possible but will be in the near future. That said, however, there really is no logical reason for doing a direct comparison given that the whole purpose behind my quest for a second camera lies in the desire for something smaller that retains the features that I deem necessary for such a device. When one takes that simple fact into consideration, all of the discussions and pontifications regarding the technical differences between, for example, the EX3 and 170 quickly become moot. No one would argue with the statement suggesting that the Panasonic AG HPXX-300 is more technologically advanced than the 170 while presenting with a sale price not too distant from the latter, but one is a shoulder mounted camera and the other is hand holdable... hardly comparable when portability is the primary consideration and with that in mind, the only camcorders that seem to fill that bill are the Panasonic 150 and 170. Will something more capable come to light in the near term future? Most likely, but barring something of bombastic nature, that meets my criteria, coming out of Sony's upcoming announcement, I will most likely be ordering a 170.

October 20th, 2009, 08:45 AM	#24
Chris Rademacher Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 40	Hey guys, I just realized to my surprise that all of these low light videos I posted were shot with the gain set at 24db. To me, from the statements I've read, you don't want to go above 12db, so after reading the manual and figuring out how to change it, the rest of my videos were shot with the max at 12db. But, the following videos were shot in full auto, auto gain control, and because of the low light I'm suspecting all at 24db: YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Low Light Test #1 YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Low Light Test #2 YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 30p Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 24p Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 30p Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 24p Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 HA1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 HG1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - 50 & 25% Slow Motion Raining Car Action #2 YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - 50 & 25% Slow Motion Raining Car Action YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - 75% Slow Motion Raining Car Action YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p - Raining Car Action YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog #2 YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p Shutter Speed & Slow Motion Test YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 PH720 60p Handheld Low Light, Rain, & Fog YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 HE1080 60i Low Light, Rain, & Fog I don't think the above videos look bad at all at 24db, personally. What do you guys think? Here's the rest of the videos shot with the gain maxed out at 12db, but these aren't all shot in the dark like the above ones. These you'l notice are tests of the gain, shutter speeds, auto gain control vs. manual gain control, digital zoom, white balance, and chroma levels, as well. YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/2000 Shutter, Manual Gain 0-12db YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/1000 Shutter, Manual Gain 0-12db YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/500 Shutter, F7.2 - 12db Gain YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/250 Shutter, F11 - 0 db Gain YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/120 Shutter, F11 - 0db Gain YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - Full Auto, Manually Adjusting Iris Dial YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - AGC Vs. MGC 1/2000 Shutter YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - AGC Vs. MGC 1/1000 Shutter YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - 1/2000 Shutter Speed, High Gain to 34 db YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 - Auto White Balance Presets YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Digital Zoom Test YouTube - Panasonic HMC40 Chroma Levels from -7 to +7 = Saturation All of the above videos are being uploaded here: UTV REPORT for download if you want the uncompressed files to watch on your computer versus YouTube. The dates of 10/12, 10/14, and 10/15 are all shot using 24db gain. And, 10/18 are the ones listed immediately above this text. All of the videos aren't uploaded to the server yet, but I think all the 10/18 ones are already. The others are uploaded as we speak. You'l also notice that the videos on 10/18 are much larger than the rest. The reason for this is I outputted them from Adobe Premier at full 21mbps, instead of 6 mbps for all the rest. I can't tell much difference...can you guys? I'm not sure it's worth the extra size, download and upload time personally. I've found too that the best way to play these to see issues is at full screen, not the standard YouTube size. I hope this helps...if anyone has any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. These were things I wanted to know before buying the HMC40, but I couldn't find out there, so I bought it. :) Chris