EX1 or XL_H1A

Trevor Meeks · October 12th, 2009, 10:41 PM

they'll probably come out with something eventually, but by then the RED Scarlet will be out and it won't really matter LOL.

For now, EX1/EX3 takes the cake as far as I'm concerned!

Les Nagy · October 12th, 2009, 11:17 PM

Trevor:

Have you shot any weddings with your EX? If so, did you not have problems with black fabrics and camera flashes?

Trevor Meeks · October 13th, 2009, 03:52 AM

nope, i stay away from weddings, etc as far as film work goes - I only do that for the photography side of my business.

We shoot the EX1 on a redrock micro M2 Encore 35mm adapter for promos, shorts, and documentary work. I can't really comment on the black fabric thing - haven't really noticed any issues. I just know the EX1 is like 200 times more awesome to work with than the XH-A1 and XL-H1 haha

A little pic of my rig:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2606/...ca872aa3_o.jpg

Enjoy!

Mitchell Yazdani · October 13th, 2009, 07:18 PM

Wow, what is that ugly alien?!!
;)

Do you think your EX1 is much better than XL-H1 even when you shoot with EX1 on 1440 and not full HD?

Michael Galvan · October 13th, 2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Meeks

nope, i stay away from weddings, etc as far as film work goes - I only do that for the photography side of my business.

We shoot the EX1 on a redrock micro M2 Encore 35mm adapter for promos, shorts, and documentary work. I can't really comment on the black fabric thing - haven't really noticed any issues. I just know the EX1 is like 200 times more awesome to work with than the XH-A1 and XL-H1 haha

A little pic of my rig:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2606/...ca872aa3_o.jpg

Enjoy!

The EX1 certainly isn't 200 times more awesome :)

I enjoy my Canon XL H1s very much and I think the image really is quite nice out of it. I had the EX1, but ultimately stayed in the Canon line.

I guess to each is own...

Trevor Meeks · October 13th, 2009, 09:38 PM

just as an FYI - i wasn't saying that it's literally 200 times more awesome, i just said that it was 200 times more awesome to work with. I adapted to the use of the camera much quicker, and i feel that I have a lot more control over it than with the canon cameras - and that's coming from a die-hard pro canon still camera fanatic.

just sayin... :)

Tom Roper · November 11th, 2009, 02:12 PM

I've used both cameras extensively, even together on multi-cam shoots, XH-A1 and EX1.

The XH-A1 came out before the EX1 but it is still a really great camera, especially at 60i, where the native 1440x1080/60i is visually almost as detailed as the EX1 at 1920x1080/60i. It's very close, and arguably less noise from the 25mbps HDV than even the EX1 35mbps HQ, due to resolving a sensor with fewer photosites to manage. At 60i, they end up being very close to each other in resolving power, both around 800 lines.

At 24p, it's a different story, there the EX1 resolves better than 1000 lines, and the Canon gets out-matched. So depending on the intended frame rate, the XH-A1 or XL-H1 can nearly match the EX1 (for 60i), of lag significantly (for 24p).

I found the depth/breadth of control on the Canon very good, nearly as deep as the EX1, lacking only in adjustable knee, gamma, but still very good with color matrix controls, black and pedestal. The audio capability of the EX1 is much more comprehensive.

The most notable advantages of the more expensive EX1 is that it electronically eliminates color fringing, chromatic abberations which are a problem at some focal lengths for the Canon, and the low light is 3-4 stops more sensitive. On the other hand, you have to watch for the CMOS rolling shutter artifacts and jello-cam tendencies with the EX1.

But in general, the XL-H1 holds it's own very well, definitely capable of clean HDTV, and significantly better detail and resolving power than any of the Video DSLRs including the Canon 5DMkII that I also own, while losing out on the expected shallow depth of field and low light performance of the DSLR.

Jonathan Shaw · November 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM

I shoot Weddings and own two XHA1's but also shoot with an EX1, I love my A1's but would go the EX1. Main reason is the low light capability of the EX1 is loads better and in a Church or reception that can make a shot.

If you want tape I would go with a Sony Z7 again it is better than the Canon in low light....

or if you can wait, Canon may finally pull there finger out and come out with an EX1 competitor but I wouldn't hold your breath!

Colin Rowe · November 12th, 2009, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchell Yazdani

Hi,

I do wedding video productions with my partner, we are used to XL1s, PC, Canopus and Premiere 1.5. We are changing to HD but after doing lots of research and investigation we got more confuse, which one to buy?

Canon XL-H1A or EX1?

Canon XL-H1A is 1440 x 1080i @ 25mbs HDV
Sony EX is up to 1920 x 1080 @ 35mbs HD
Go for the EX, far better cam all round, and the workflow is awesome.

Simon Wyndham · November 16th, 2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Weddings are one off never to be able to be re-shot never can fail situations. In this case it is my humble opinion that tape still has it over solid state in that tape is its own backup. Capture the event on tape and then capture from the tape for editing and final production. Put that inexpensive tape on the shelf and know it is good for many years without issues. The same can't be said about solid state yet and archiving it is definitely not as easy, or it isn't as cheap.

I disagree. Solid state is much more reliable during the actual recording of the event. With solid state you don't have to worry about humidity issues (going from cold rainy outdoors into a warm indoor setting for example, or vice versa). Solid state doesn't have any mechanical parts to go wrong, so chewed tapes are a thing of the past. Further to that unlike tape which can have drop outs at the most inconvenient of times, solid state doesn't have this issue either.

If you really want tape to sit on the shelf (you shouldn't. Standard tape isn't an archive device) then if you recorded HDV to solid state you can then copy that footage back to HDV tape if you like. Or use a hybrid camera that records to both tape and solid state.

However, I am not sure why you say solid state can't be put on a shelf. It can, and in fact San Disk are working on SD cards that are said to be good for 100 years or so. Once the price on that type of memory comes down tape will be made totally redundant.

As for which camera to go for, it all depends on budget. Personally I would go for the EX. The picture quality is leaps and bounds ahead of the Canon, and you have a lot more versatility with the controls. With regard to the blacks issue, don't forget that the EX1R corrects issues such as that.

Nic MacDonald · November 19th, 2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

I believe the "black fabric problem" is caused by infared light affecting the sensor. So visible black is not always recorded as black b/c infared light is stimulating the sensor. I know the Red camera also has this problem.

There are a number of filter soultions for this, but none seem to be perfect, FWICT.

The RED One has a known issue with infrared light and there are filters and hot mirrors to deal with this.

In the case of the EX3 (as well as the F23 and F35) it's apparently the result of the sensor's broadband colour dyes reacting to far red light which our eyes can't see; the part of the red spectrum between infrared and what's in our visual range. Infrared light isn't a problem on the Sony cameras (or at least that's how I understood it). Tiffen have manufactured a filter that blocks far red light though.

Paul Inglis · November 25th, 2009, 05:13 AM

The remedy for the far red contamination on the EX-1 and EX-3 hails in the form of a Tiffen T1 IR Filter. This makes the blacks much richer in certain fabrics apposed to the red mushy brown colour that once prevailed.

The EX1R as mention has fixed that problem.

As for solid-state media, I love it and its total reliable when using Pro SxS Memory Cards. The third party cards such as the MxR adaptor that take SDHC can occasional cause problems even though I haven’t found this to be myself.

If I was shooting weddings then I’d probably have a couple of EX1R or EX-3’s as I prefer the form factor.

I’ve not shot with the Canon so can’t comment about them. But I will say that I’m so glad I no longer need to think about tapes. Someone mentioned that solid state media is more expensive. I disagree as long term you make a cost saving.

November 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM	#23
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	I shoot Weddings and own two XHA1's but also shoot with an EX1, I love my A1's but would go the EX1. Main reason is the low light capability of the EX1 is loads better and in a Church or reception that can make a shot. If you want tape I would go with a Sony Z7 again it is better than the Canon in low light.... or if you can wait, Canon may finally pull there finger out and come out with an EX1 competitor but I wouldn't hold your breath! __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

October 12th, 2009, 10:41 PM	#16
Trevor Meeks Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sonoma, CA Posts: 336	they'll probably come out with something eventually, but by then the RED Scarlet will be out and it won't really matter LOL. For now, EX1/EX3 takes the cake as far as I'm concerned!

October 12th, 2009, 11:17 PM	#17
Les Nagy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: A Canadian in Canada, and sometimes Chile Posts: 265	Trevor: Have you shot any weddings with your EX? If so, did you not have problems with black fabrics and camera flashes?

October 13th, 2009, 03:52 AM	#18
Trevor Meeks Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sonoma, CA Posts: 336	nope, i stay away from weddings, etc as far as film work goes - I only do that for the photography side of my business. We shoot the EX1 on a redrock micro M2 Encore 35mm adapter for promos, shorts, and documentary work. I can't really comment on the black fabric thing - haven't really noticed any issues. I just know the EX1 is like 200 times more awesome to work with than the XH-A1 and XL-H1 haha A little pic of my rig: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2606/...ca872aa3_o.jpg Enjoy!

October 13th, 2009, 07:18 PM	#19
Mitchell Yazdani Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 79	Wow, what is that ugly alien?!! ;) Do you think your EX1 is much better than XL-H1 even when you shoot with EX1 on 1440 and not full HD?

October 13th, 2009, 09:38 PM	#21
Trevor Meeks Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sonoma, CA Posts: 336	just as an FYI - i wasn't saying that it's literally 200 times more awesome, i just said that it was 200 times more awesome to work with. I adapted to the use of the camera much quicker, and i feel that I have a lot more control over it than with the canon cameras - and that's coming from a die-hard pro canon still camera fanatic. just sayin... :)

November 11th, 2009, 02:12 PM	#22
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I've used both cameras extensively, even together on multi-cam shoots, XH-A1 and EX1. The XH-A1 came out before the EX1 but it is still a really great camera, especially at 60i, where the native 1440x1080/60i is visually almost as detailed as the EX1 at 1920x1080/60i. It's very close, and arguably less noise from the 25mbps HDV than even the EX1 35mbps HQ, due to resolving a sensor with fewer photosites to manage. At 60i, they end up being very close to each other in resolving power, both around 800 lines. At 24p, it's a different story, there the EX1 resolves better than 1000 lines, and the Canon gets out-matched. So depending on the intended frame rate, the XH-A1 or XL-H1 can nearly match the EX1 (for 60i), of lag significantly (for 24p). I found the depth/breadth of control on the Canon very good, nearly as deep as the EX1, lacking only in adjustable knee, gamma, but still very good with color matrix controls, black and pedestal. The audio capability of the EX1 is much more comprehensive. The most notable advantages of the more expensive EX1 is that it electronically eliminates color fringing, chromatic abberations which are a problem at some focal lengths for the Canon, and the low light is 3-4 stops more sensitive. On the other hand, you have to watch for the CMOS rolling shutter artifacts and jello-cam tendencies with the EX1. But in general, the XL-H1 holds it's own very well, definitely capable of clean HDTV, and significantly better detail and resolving power than any of the Video DSLRs including the Canon 5DMkII that I also own, while losing out on the expected shallow depth of field and low light performance of the DSLR.

November 25th, 2009, 05:13 AM	#27
Paul Inglis Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: British Isles Posts: 415	The remedy for the far red contamination on the EX-1 and EX-3 hails in the form of a Tiffen T1 IR Filter. This makes the blacks much richer in certain fabrics apposed to the red mushy brown colour that once prevailed. The EX1R as mention has fixed that problem. As for solid-state media, I love it and its total reliable when using Pro SxS Memory Cards. The third party cards such as the MxR adaptor that take SDHC can occasional cause problems even though I haven’t found this to be myself. If I was shooting weddings then I’d probably have a couple of EX1R or EX-3’s as I prefer the form factor. I’ve not shot with the Canon so can’t comment about them. But I will say that I’m so glad I no longer need to think about tapes. Someone mentioned that solid state media is more expensive. I disagree as long term you make a cost saving.