RED camera at DVinfo.net

Pat Hughes · September 30th, 2009, 07:41 AM

Anyone know what is going on with RED ? I so far have not seen anyone using any of them for wedding videography.I do know they use them for some films but RED seems to delay forever. I wish I can see and touch one at my pro cam store. It's like the carrot in front of the horse.

Perrone Ford · September 30th, 2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hughes

Anyone know what is going on with RED ? I so far have not seen anyone using any of them for wedding videography.I do know they use them for some films but RED seems to delay forever. I wish I can see and touch one at my pro cam store. It's like the carrot in front of the horse.

Not many people are going to use a $50,000 camera to shoot a wedding. RED is direct sales only. So if you want to buy one, you go to them. However, seeing where you live (not far from where I used to live) you can get your hands on one if you go across the GWB.

Christopher Glavan · September 30th, 2009, 01:33 PM

RED will start filling order tickets for Scarlet by next year (subject to change of course), and their "low-end" model that comes with a fixed 8x lens will be completely equipped to shoot 3k out of the box (no additional purchases required to start using the camera) for under $3,800. They've all but set that price point in stone. Not a bad entry model for things like weddings. =)

Pat Hughes · September 30th, 2009, 04:50 PM

I am really interested only in their mid range models like the Epic that is truly modular, that also can accept prime 35mm lenses, somewhat affordable. I have already invested over 22 grand for somethings that are already obsolete or would be a considerable expenditure to upgrade. Shelling out say 15 grand for a kit would be in my ballpark but I really must get my hands on some RED Code sample clips to see how well it would fare with FCP and my NLE workflow. I wish there is a dealer that has them for in store evaluation and testing prior to purchase and that I can take home with me a few seconds of RAW files on a DVD to fiddle around with on my Mac. Many dealers I talked to don't even know what it is.

Perrone Ford · September 30th, 2009, 08:43 PM

Take some time and study the RED stuff if it really interests you. But you REALLY need to learn the product line first.

The Entry level model will be the Scarlet. It will likely retail somewhere in the $4k to $15k space. It has not yet been released

The next model up is the RED One. It is the model currently for sale, and costs between $32k and $55k ready to shoot depending on options.

The top model is the Epic. It has not yet been released, but will probably occupy the space from $50k - $100k.

All cameras are built on a modular platform.

In terms of FCP, the developers of RED are FCP users. FCP is supported before anything else, and it get's the best tools. Getting your hands on RAW Red footage is not difficult. But honestly, if you are going to work with it in FCP, you are likely going to be doing a log and transfer into FCP with ProResHQ or the newly released high quality ProRes if you have the latest update of FCP.

Dealers don't know what it is, because it's not for sale through dealers. You need to start talking to Cinema Rental houses.

Check places like this:
Du-All Camera - Motion Picture Camera Equipment : Rentals, Sales and Repairs
Red One Camera Rentals, Rent Red One Packages | New York City, NYC NY
Unfolded Films + About

That should put you on the path...

-P

David W. Jones · October 1st, 2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hughes

Anyone know what is going on with RED ? I so far have not seen anyone using any of them for wedding videography.I do know they use them for some films but RED seems to delay forever. I wish I can see and touch one at my pro cam store. It's like the carrot in front of the horse.

Pat, I shoot with a Red One on occasion but I wouldn't dream of shooting a wedding with one. Ever heard the expression "the right tool for the job at hand"? Well the Red One is not the right tool to cover weddings. It is a great tool for shooting movies, or for shooting commercials as I do, if you have the time & budget.

I won't speculate on the yet to be released Red models as that would be foolish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hughes

I am really interested only in their mid range models like the Epic that is truly modular, that also can accept prime 35mm lenses, somewhat affordable. I have already invested over 22 grand for somethings that are already obsolete or would be a considerable expenditure to upgrade. Shelling out say 15 grand for a kit would be in my ballpark but I really must get my hands on some RED Code sample clips to see how well it would fare with FCP and my NLE workflow. I wish there is a dealer that has them for in store evaluation and testing prior to purchase and that I can take home with me a few seconds of RAW files on a DVD to fiddle around with on my Mac. Many dealers I talked to don't even know what it is.

Some things become obsolete over time, its no different with video equipment & computers, so get used to it. And if you truly think that the new modular Reds will be future proof, you're dreaming. There are plenty of Red files on the Net for you to test your workflow with. You might look through some of the links posted on the Red site.

Good Luck!

Brian Drysdale · October 1st, 2009, 06:52 AM

The Epic will be RED's high end model. I suspect unless you're involved in high end productions the 35mm sensor Scarlet would make sense. You don't mention if your 35mm lenses are stills lenses or cine, I'm assuming the former, so the Scarlet (S35 or FF35) would be much more in that budget ball park.

Peter Moretti · October 1st, 2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hughes

... Shelling out say 15 grand for a kit would be in my ballpark ...

That won't even buy you a Red One body, let a lone an Epic. It would do well with a Scarlet, however, from what we've been told to expect.

Robert M Wright · October 1st, 2009, 08:34 PM

It's awfully tough to cost justify spending 15 grand on a camera kit, for shooting weddings at typical going rates.

Pat Hughes · October 1st, 2009, 10:38 PM

Well. here in the Tri-State area (NY,NJ,Conn.) I shoot 50+ videos per year averaging between 2300 to 2700 dollars per contract. I figure I can fully afford one with only less than 10 weddings work. I shoot and edit all my work. I thought I saw a model (body only) for around 8 grand and with the rest of the stuff and viewfinder to be around 15 G's. When I used to shoot photography, my Hasselblad and lenses alone totaled over 20 G's, and that was around 1996. Weddings require the best resolution and customers are very demanding. Almost all newlyweds have a 1080p 16:9 HD over 42" LCD in their house nowadays. Show a standard def 3:4 letterboxed version of their wedding day and you're looking at a refund. For now, I'll wait and see what RED has to offer for the upcoming season, I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

Perrone Ford · October 1st, 2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hughes

I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

The next model up from the RED Scarlet is the RED one. It's available now. The body is $17.9k if memory serves and with Lens, recording option, viewfinder, etc., it's about $32k ready to shoot. And you'll need a tripod for it that can handle about 30 pounds.

Bill Koehler · October 2nd, 2009, 01:52 AM

Check out spec's, prices here:

RED / Cameras

RED / Lenses

RED / Accessories

RED STORE

Peter Moretti · October 2nd, 2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hughes

... Almost all newlyweds have a 1080p 16:9 HD over 42" LCD in their house nowadays. Show a standard def 3:4 letterboxed version of their wedding day and you're looking at a refund. For now, I'll wait and see what RED has to offer for the upcoming season, I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

A $1,000 camcorder can shoot 1080p 16:9 HD. To be honest, if you want excellent quality, good low light performance and interchangeable lenses, I'd seriously look at the Sony EX-3.

You don't need (even want) the shallow DOF that the Red offers. Red's big advantages are when it comes to digital cinema, where you have time to setup shots, use a focus puller, have a major set of sticks or steadycam operator and know when the talent is going to move and where they are going to stop. 4K resolution and 12-bit 4:4:4 color isn't going to help you for editing a wedding, unless you want day for night color corrections composited on to a starfield and projected in a local theatre with the hope of fooling NASA. If you don't own FCS 3 or CS4, you're not going to be able to work with 4K resolution anyway. [I just wanted to clarify that Vegas does also work natively w/ Red files at 4K resolution, but it cannot not use the direct access approach that Apple and Adobe use; it has to use the SDK. That and the fact that Vegas uses no hardware acceleration, makes using it slower than FCS or Premiere. But Vegas is a choice for natively editing Red footage.] And you'll need one very fast PC or Mac and experience long render times. Your workflow will take much longer, b/c you'll most likely be editing files transcoded into ProRes and then have to reconform them to the original R3D's in Color. But all that will be lost anyway since you aren't doing a filmout or projecting on a big screen; nobody's 42" plasma plays 4K DPX files, so you're stuck going back to 1080p. And you'll be providing, at best a BluRay DVD, (which FCPS can't natively make) which is not only 1080p (not 4K) but it's also compressed w/ much more loss than RedCode does. So what in the world is the point??

And if you're a one man operation, how are you going to even focus the Red? How are you going to move it? How will you not annoy the crap out the guests by hauling a movie production camera around this intimate setting? Unless you're filming the Gotti family before their fall, I don't see how such ostentation could be considered anything but a major, annoying distraction. And even then, there's a good chance Bruce Cuttler would give you a cease and desist.

I'm not trying to pour water on you wanting the very best. But Scarlet IS the Red product that comes closest to what you're looking for. And the EX-3 is probably the most ideal, shootable now option out there.

JMHO, and truly, good luck w/ everything.

Vito DeFilippo · October 2nd, 2009, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

I'm not trying to pour water on you

Gee, Peter. You sure know how to rain on a guy's parade, hehe :-)

Great post.

David W. Jones · October 2nd, 2009, 06:06 AM

Yes but Peter makes the point... Sometimes what you want & what you need are two different things!

September 30th, 2009, 07:41 AM	#1
Pat Hughes Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Teaneck NJ Posts: 28	RED camera Anyone know what is going on with RED ? I so far have not seen anyone using any of them for wedding videography.I do know they use them for some films but RED seems to delay forever. I wish I can see and touch one at my pro cam store. It's like the carrot in front of the horse.

September 30th, 2009, 01:33 PM	#3
Christopher Glavan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 260	RED will start filling order tickets for Scarlet by next year (subject to change of course), and their "low-end" model that comes with a fixed 8x lens will be completely equipped to shoot 3k out of the box (no additional purchases required to start using the camera) for under $3,800. They've all but set that price point in stone. Not a bad entry model for things like weddings. =) __________________ Reel Impressions Media - Make it more than a memory GY-HD100- 7D- PSC Promix 3- Lectro/Sennheiser- Zoom H4- MPB- CS6/CC

September 30th, 2009, 04:50 PM	#4
Pat Hughes Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Teaneck NJ Posts: 28	RED Camera I am really interested only in their mid range models like the Epic that is truly modular, that also can accept prime 35mm lenses, somewhat affordable. I have already invested over 22 grand for somethings that are already obsolete or would be a considerable expenditure to upgrade. Shelling out say 15 grand for a kit would be in my ballpark but I really must get my hands on some RED Code sample clips to see how well it would fare with FCP and my NLE workflow. I wish there is a dealer that has them for in store evaluation and testing prior to purchase and that I can take home with me a few seconds of RAW files on a DVD to fiddle around with on my Mac. Many dealers I talked to don't even know what it is.

September 30th, 2009, 08:43 PM	#5
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Take some time and study the RED stuff if it really interests you. But you REALLY need to learn the product line first. The Entry level model will be the Scarlet. It will likely retail somewhere in the $4k to $15k space. It has not yet been released The next model up is the RED One. It is the model currently for sale, and costs between $32k and $55k ready to shoot depending on options. The top model is the Epic. It has not yet been released, but will probably occupy the space from $50k - $100k. All cameras are built on a modular platform. In terms of FCP, the developers of RED are FCP users. FCP is supported before anything else, and it get's the best tools. Getting your hands on RAW Red footage is not difficult. But honestly, if you are going to work with it in FCP, you are likely going to be doing a log and transfer into FCP with ProResHQ or the newly released high quality ProRes if you have the latest update of FCP. Dealers don't know what it is, because it's not for sale through dealers. You need to start talking to Cinema Rental houses. Check places like this: Du-All Camera - Motion Picture Camera Equipment : Rentals, Sales and Repairs Red One Camera Rentals, Rent Red One Packages \| New York City, NYC NY Unfolded Films + About That should put you on the path... -P __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

October 1st, 2009, 10:38 PM	#10
Pat Hughes Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Teaneck NJ Posts: 28	Red Camera Well. here in the Tri-State area (NY,NJ,Conn.) I shoot 50+ videos per year averaging between 2300 to 2700 dollars per contract. I figure I can fully afford one with only less than 10 weddings work. I shoot and edit all my work. I thought I saw a model (body only) for around 8 grand and with the rest of the stuff and viewfinder to be around 15 G's. When I used to shoot photography, my Hasselblad and lenses alone totaled over 20 G's, and that was around 1996. Weddings require the best resolution and customers are very demanding. Almost all newlyweds have a 1080p 16:9 HD over 42" LCD in their house nowadays. Show a standard def 3:4 letterboxed version of their wedding day and you're looking at a refund. For now, I'll wait and see what RED has to offer for the upcoming season, I'm sure there is a model up from the RED Scarlet that has interchangeable lenses that is within my budget.

October 1st, 2009, 06:52 AM	#7
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	The Epic will be RED's high end model. I suspect unless you're involved in high end productions the 35mm sensor Scarlet would make sense. You don't mention if your 35mm lenses are stills lenses or cine, I'm assuming the former, so the Scarlet (S35 or FF35) would be much more in that budget ball park.

October 1st, 2009, 08:34 PM	#9
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	It's awfully tough to cost justify spending 15 grand on a camera kit, for shooting weddings at typical going rates.

October 2nd, 2009, 01:52 AM	#12
Bill Koehler Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia, USA Posts: 760	Check out spec's, prices here: RED / Cameras RED / Lenses RED / Accessories RED STORE

October 2nd, 2009, 06:06 AM	#15
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	Yes but Peter makes the point... Sometimes what you want & what you need are two different things!