Progressive vs. interlaced, 50 Hz vs. 25 Hz, 30Hz, which prosumer camera to buy at DVinfo.net

Radek Svoboda · May 21st, 2005, 01:40 AM

There is constant debate of progressive vs. interlaced. What is normally overlooked in these debates is importance of frame rate of progressive.

720p50 and 1080i50 is wash for most situations. If you shoot general material for TV, either is fine.

720p25 is great for film production but 1080i50 converts to 720p25 nicely. But native 720p25 HDV will have slight edge over converted 1080i50 HDV.

25p or 24p? Either is fine for film production. All you have to is slow down sound by 4% without chaging pitch on 25p to get 24p. It's very simple.

24-30p is not suitable for average shooter who is shooting for TV set presentation. It is because he has to pan slowly, avoid certain panning speeds or footage will be jittery. Even if he does follow rules footage will have the jitter of film, which many like, is fine for film, but may not be as ideal for TV.

24-25p is perfect for one who wants to shoot for international markets because it converts to both 50 and 60 Hz TV material nicely. PAL is 50 Hz, NTSC is 60 Hz.

If one is to shoot for NTSC or PAL markets only and end product be shown on TV, not in cinema and he not want the film look jitter on panning, he should shoot 1080i50-60 or 720p50-60.

New Sony studio cameras shoot 1080p50. 1080p50 is ideal way of shooting. If you shoot 1080p50 with 360 deg. shutter, you'll get footage that converts perfect to 24-25p, nice to 60i, perfectly to 50i. They conert to 720p50-60p perfectly, but are too expensive.

Future 720p50 HDV cameras will be low cost substitution for ultimate 1080p50.

Sometimes in distant future 1080p50-60 may become HDTV standard. To future-proof content, 1080p50 shooting would be ideal. 720p50 may be next best; 1080i50 would be fine too.

FX1U is fine for the NTSC TV material, will convert to 24p but not as nicely as FX1E. It is however super bargain. About 3000 USD. CF30 will produce fine progressive HD images for TV presentation, is not suitable for film out.

The new smaller Sony HDV cameras are likely to produce excellent images but lens will not be as wide and low light capability will be worse. But they will be easy carry around.

CONCLUSION:

From the available and soon available cameras, new Panasonic 200 P2 DVCPRO HD is best for overall shooting but with P2 cards too expensive for most people. This will be superb camera for filmmaker, it shoots 1080p24 in one mode.

The New JVC HD100 is perfect for who want film look and who shoot for international markets. This is camera for professionals.

The Sony HDV cameras are great for those who want TV look, are looking for bargain, can't control pan speed, which is OK on set, but not other situations. I own FX1E and CF25 produces very nice progressive HD images. Shooting in 50i and converting in best software will produce nice material for film out. It will be nearly as good as JVC HD100. Sony HDV cameras are ideal for anyone, from amateur to pro on tight budget.

Sony may have started quality low cost HD, I'm sure others have competing models in not too distant future - Canon, Panansonic, JVC, Sharp. If you want even less expensive HD(V), just wait. But what is being offered, planning to be offered by JVC, Panasonic and Sony are super HD bargains.

As to HD10 JVC, it produces fine images if you have lot of light and take extreme caution to adjust camera, which is hard to control manually. It was the camera that startad it all but new generation cameras are naturally better.

Radek

Ken Hodson · May 21st, 2005, 06:52 PM

"24-30p is not suitable for average shooter who is shooting for TV set presentation. It is because he has to pan slowly, avoid certain panning speeds or footage will be jittery. Even if he does follow rules footage will have the jitter of film, which many like, is fine for film, but may not be as ideal for TV."

Well I agree that 24/30p may not be ideal for the complete amature it isn't that hard to adjust to if one cares to learn. All of the top TV shows were always shot with film at 24p. Some still are, and many have switched to HD video at 24p. Most all DVD's will play out at 24p if you have a progressive TV or digital projector giving a superior picture worth leaving the interlaced world behind.
30p gives 6 more frames per second to help ease motion problems, which can only be seen as an advantage unless you live in PAL land.

Thomas Smet · May 22nd, 2005, 01:40 PM

Pretty much any movie on VHS or DVD was shot at 24p with 3:2 pulldown added. Even fast action movies or sports movies. Saying 24p sucks is like saying PAL TV sucks at 25p.

Darrin McMillan · May 23rd, 2005, 05:20 AM

I "personally" like the progressive. I would wait for a bit if you can, to see what the new generation of HVD is going to be like. The new JVC looks pretty amazing. If you are on a tight budget go for the JVC Hd10, for the money it yields amazing results. You just have to know your conditions and setup correctly.

May 21st, 2005, 01:40 AM	#1
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Progressive vs. interlaced, 50 Hz vs. 25 Hz, 30Hz, which prosumer camera to buy There is constant debate of progressive vs. interlaced. What is normally overlooked in these debates is importance of frame rate of progressive. 720p50 and 1080i50 is wash for most situations. If you shoot general material for TV, either is fine. 720p25 is great for film production but 1080i50 converts to 720p25 nicely. But native 720p25 HDV will have slight edge over converted 1080i50 HDV. 25p or 24p? Either is fine for film production. All you have to is slow down sound by 4% without chaging pitch on 25p to get 24p. It's very simple. 24-30p is not suitable for average shooter who is shooting for TV set presentation. It is because he has to pan slowly, avoid certain panning speeds or footage will be jittery. Even if he does follow rules footage will have the jitter of film, which many like, is fine for film, but may not be as ideal for TV. 24-25p is perfect for one who wants to shoot for international markets because it converts to both 50 and 60 Hz TV material nicely. PAL is 50 Hz, NTSC is 60 Hz. If one is to shoot for NTSC or PAL markets only and end product be shown on TV, not in cinema and he not want the film look jitter on panning, he should shoot 1080i50-60 or 720p50-60. New Sony studio cameras shoot 1080p50. 1080p50 is ideal way of shooting. If you shoot 1080p50 with 360 deg. shutter, you'll get footage that converts perfect to 24-25p, nice to 60i, perfectly to 50i. They conert to 720p50-60p perfectly, but are too expensive. Future 720p50 HDV cameras will be low cost substitution for ultimate 1080p50. Sometimes in distant future 1080p50-60 may become HDTV standard. To future-proof content, 1080p50 shooting would be ideal. 720p50 may be next best; 1080i50 would be fine too. FX1U is fine for the NTSC TV material, will convert to 24p but not as nicely as FX1E. It is however super bargain. About 3000 USD. CF30 will produce fine progressive HD images for TV presentation, is not suitable for film out. The new smaller Sony HDV cameras are likely to produce excellent images but lens will not be as wide and low light capability will be worse. But they will be easy carry around. CONCLUSION: From the available and soon available cameras, new Panasonic 200 P2 DVCPRO HD is best for overall shooting but with P2 cards too expensive for most people. This will be superb camera for filmmaker, it shoots 1080p24 in one mode. The New JVC HD100 is perfect for who want film look and who shoot for international markets. This is camera for professionals. The Sony HDV cameras are great for those who want TV look, are looking for bargain, can't control pan speed, which is OK on set, but not other situations. I own FX1E and CF25 produces very nice progressive HD images. Shooting in 50i and converting in best software will produce nice material for film out. It will be nearly as good as JVC HD100. Sony HDV cameras are ideal for anyone, from amateur to pro on tight budget. Sony may have started quality low cost HD, I'm sure others have competing models in not too distant future - Canon, Panansonic, JVC, Sharp. If you want even less expensive HD(V), just wait. But what is being offered, planning to be offered by JVC, Panasonic and Sony are super HD bargains. As to HD10 JVC, it produces fine images if you have lot of light and take extreme caution to adjust camera, which is hard to control manually. It was the camera that startad it all but new generation cameras are naturally better. Radek

May 21st, 2005, 06:52 PM	#2
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	"24-30p is not suitable for average shooter who is shooting for TV set presentation. It is because he has to pan slowly, avoid certain panning speeds or footage will be jittery. Even if he does follow rules footage will have the jitter of film, which many like, is fine for film, but may not be as ideal for TV." Well I agree that 24/30p may not be ideal for the complete amature it isn't that hard to adjust to if one cares to learn. All of the top TV shows were always shot with film at 24p. Some still are, and many have switched to HD video at 24p. Most all DVD's will play out at 24p if you have a progressive TV or digital projector giving a superior picture worth leaving the interlaced world behind. 30p gives 6 more frames per second to help ease motion problems, which can only be seen as an advantage unless you live in PAL land. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

May 23rd, 2005, 05:20 AM	#4
Darrin McMillan Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 96	Progressive I "personally" like the progressive. I would wait for a bit if you can, to see what the new generation of HVD is going to be like. The new JVC looks pretty amazing. If you are on a tight budget go for the JVC Hd10, for the money it yields amazing results. You just have to know your conditions and setup correctly.

May 22nd, 2005, 01:40 PM	#3
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Pretty much any movie on VHS or DVD was shot at 24p with 3:2 pulldown added. Even fast action movies or sports movies. Saying 24p sucks is like saying PAL TV sucks at 25p.