Compare with the naked eye

Dom Dzip · November 9th, 2004, 08:02 AM

I know we're getting off topic, but does Lumière support the FX1 yet? The website says it doesn't.

Darren Kelly · November 9th, 2004, 09:39 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dom Dzip : I know we're getting off topic, but does Lumière support the FX1 yet? The website says it doesn't. -->>>

No it doesn't support it yet. It will very zoon as they are working on it.

DBK

David Kennett · November 9th, 2004, 11:48 AM

Dom,

As someone else mentioned, BOTH pictures were reduced to pretty much standard DV resolution. The HDV (reduced to SD) STILL looks a bit better than the DV.

The real comparison would be at the higher res.

Heath McKnight · November 9th, 2004, 03:14 PM

DV is DV, HDV or 35mm film or whatever down-converted to DV still looks great. I always stress that to my friends who are just getting into filmmaking (not to say you guys are, btw).

heath

Dom Dzip · November 10th, 2004, 11:24 AM

David,

I did the first test wrong making the two images the same size-
Please see in the middle of this thread two other pictures full rez and full original size I made available on the net.

John C. Chu · November 11th, 2004, 08:11 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : We're getting off topic with the editing solutions, FCP and FCE currently do NOT support HDV, but will likely by next Spring.
heath -->>>

Yes, still off topic...but did you hear rumors that Final Cut Express will support HDV?

That would be great for someone on a budget(my imaginary budget at this moment in time)...

Heath McKnight · November 11th, 2004, 09:21 AM

John,

Post that question over in our HDV editing solutions page--I'm sure they'll have better answers!

heath

Patrick Jenkins · November 11th, 2004, 04:15 PM

Just an FYI.. Mac & FCP/E users check out MPEGStreamClip to convert your HDV files into something usable in Final Cut.

Capture with DVHSCap, convert with MpegStreamClip, edit away.

Takes some time to convert, but if you've got more time than $$, it's a great solution.

http://www.alfanet.it/squared5/mpegstreamclip.html

Dom Dzip · November 11th, 2004, 04:30 PM

Right on Patrick.
It's good to know it works for someone else too. So until FCP comes up with their update, I'll keep doing exactly that.

Back to comparing DV and HDV with the naked eye - please look in the middle of the thread - I have posted 2 new images of correct proportions, any of you could see them?

Here are the links again. I'm blown away by the size of hdv.

www.toptao.com/hdv.tif

and

www.toptao.com/dv.tif

Hayden Rivers · November 12th, 2004, 10:29 AM

Thanks for .tif images. Glad to see people are getting their FX1's. Can't wait for someone to put something together and upload it so we can all check it out.

Does the FX1 have some sort of fake 24p setting? I just read a thread that stated they were doing a demo in NYC for a group of people and they showed the camera using it's 24p settings, but I thought that 24p was going to be reserved for the professional version of the FX1.

Dom Dzip · November 12th, 2004, 10:51 AM

The fx1 doesn't have 24p recording capabilities.
It has a cineframe mode 24. I am told it is a shutter speed, and not a frame rate - this is why it looks kind of studdering.

Sorry to be changing the topic of my thread but PLEASE!!! Someone who has SEEN the Z1 tell us : does it have 24 P (PROGRESSIVE) capabilities? I've been searching all over for solid info on this.

If YES : so it will do PROGRESSIVE and INTERLACED?

In anycase, here's a thought : For a film maker like me who will eventually finish in FILM, isn't it better to shoot in 60i (being a larger number of lines than progressive > hence higher quality) and THEN transfering with these pro stations which have great software to make the interlaced to progressive conversions? Wouldn't I get more quality out of my image?

-dOM

Robert Rock · November 16th, 2004, 01:01 AM

Actually, for film out, if you can wait for the Z1, it is switchable from 30fps 60i to Pal 25fps 50i which is easier to tx to film than 60i. But, if you have the FX1 60i will work. No progressive mode other than 25p or 24p will tx to film easily. That's why so many video to film houses warn against using the JVC HDV Cams, and some outright refuse to even work with the footage from them.

For instance, 25p or 50i just needs to be slowed a bit. Not even enough to notice, but most tx houses will do a pitch shift on the audio to compensate for any variance. 24p, well, that kinda speaks for itself. 24 fps out to 24fps in... nuff said. with 60i it gets a little complicated, field mixing is usually the solution to keep motion smooth while lowering the frame rate to 24, without dropping any actual info. Here's the kicker... With the 720p 30 HDV from JVC, which from many accounts has a fair amount of motion judder (I can attest to this as well) you have to actually drop whole frames. Because it's progressive, there's no field mixing possible, and converting 30p to 60i really only doubles the frame as individual fields that contain the same information. So you see, it's not as simple, or as complex as you think. I personally will wait for the Z1 and switch to 25fps 50i for my film out applications, and 30fps 60i for video only stuff.

Hope this helps

Rob

Jose di Cani · December 8th, 2004, 11:52 AM

links don't work!

November 9th, 2004, 08:02 AM	#16
Dom Dzip New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	Lumière? I know we're getting off topic, but does Lumière support the FX1 yet? The website says it doesn't.

November 9th, 2004, 09:39 AM	#17
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	Re: Lumière? <<<-- Originally posted by Dom Dzip : I know we're getting off topic, but does Lumière support the FX1 yet? The website says it doesn't. -->>> No it doesn't support it yet. It will very zoon as they are working on it. DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

November 9th, 2004, 11:48 AM	#18
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	Dom, As someone else mentioned, BOTH pictures were reduced to pretty much standard DV resolution. The HDV (reduced to SD) STILL looks a bit better than the DV. The real comparison would be at the higher res. __________________ Dave

November 9th, 2004, 03:14 PM	#19
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	DV is DV, HDV or 35mm film or whatever down-converted to DV still looks great. I always stress that to my friends who are just getting into filmmaking (not to say you guys are, btw). heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 10th, 2004, 11:24 AM	#20
Dom Dzip New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	2nd test David, I did the first test wrong making the two images the same size- Please see in the middle of this thread two other pictures full rez and full original size I made available on the net.

November 11th, 2004, 08:11 AM	#21
John C. Chu Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rego Park , NYC Posts: 665	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : We're getting off topic with the editing solutions, FCP and FCE currently do NOT support HDV, but will likely by next Spring. heath -->>> Yes, still off topic...but did you hear rumors that Final Cut Express will support HDV? That would be great for someone on a budget(my imaginary budget at this moment in time)...

November 11th, 2004, 09:21 AM	#22
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	John, Post that question over in our HDV editing solutions page--I'm sure they'll have better answers! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 11th, 2004, 04:15 PM	#23
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	Just an FYI.. Mac & FCP/E users check out MPEGStreamClip to convert your HDV files into something usable in Final Cut. Capture with DVHSCap, convert with MpegStreamClip, edit away. Takes some time to convert, but if you've got more time than $$, it's a great solution. http://www.alfanet.it/squared5/mpegstreamclip.html

November 11th, 2004, 04:30 PM	#24
Dom Dzip New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	editing Right on Patrick. It's good to know it works for someone else too. So until FCP comes up with their update, I'll keep doing exactly that. Back to comparing DV and HDV with the naked eye - please look in the middle of the thread - I have posted 2 new images of correct proportions, any of you could see them? Here are the links again. I'm blown away by the size of hdv. www.toptao.com/hdv.tif and www.toptao.com/dv.tif

November 12th, 2004, 10:29 AM	#25
Hayden Rivers Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 53	Thanks for .tif images. Glad to see people are getting their FX1's. Can't wait for someone to put something together and upload it so we can all check it out. Does the FX1 have some sort of fake 24p setting? I just read a thread that stated they were doing a demo in NYC for a group of people and they showed the camera using it's 24p settings, but I thought that 24p was going to be reserved for the professional version of the FX1.

November 12th, 2004, 10:51 AM	#26
Dom Dzip New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	24 p The fx1 doesn't have 24p recording capabilities. It has a cineframe mode 24. I am told it is a shutter speed, and not a frame rate - this is why it looks kind of studdering. Sorry to be changing the topic of my thread but PLEASE!!! Someone who has SEEN the Z1 tell us : does it have 24 P (PROGRESSIVE) capabilities? I've been searching all over for solid info on this. If YES : so it will do PROGRESSIVE and INTERLACED? In anycase, here's a thought : For a film maker like me who will eventually finish in FILM, isn't it better to shoot in 60i (being a larger number of lines than progressive > hence higher quality) and THEN transfering with these pro stations which have great software to make the interlaced to progressive conversions? Wouldn't I get more quality out of my image? -dOM

November 16th, 2004, 01:01 AM	#27
Robert Rock Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Freeport, Texas Posts: 25	Actually, for film out, if you can wait for the Z1, it is switchable from 30fps 60i to Pal 25fps 50i which is easier to tx to film than 60i. But, if you have the FX1 60i will work. No progressive mode other than 25p or 24p will tx to film easily. That's why so many video to film houses warn against using the JVC HDV Cams, and some outright refuse to even work with the footage from them. For instance, 25p or 50i just needs to be slowed a bit. Not even enough to notice, but most tx houses will do a pitch shift on the audio to compensate for any variance. 24p, well, that kinda speaks for itself. 24 fps out to 24fps in... nuff said. with 60i it gets a little complicated, field mixing is usually the solution to keep motion smooth while lowering the frame rate to 24, without dropping any actual info. Here's the kicker... With the 720p 30 HDV from JVC, which from many accounts has a fair amount of motion judder (I can attest to this as well) you have to actually drop whole frames. Because it's progressive, there's no field mixing possible, and converting 30p to 60i really only doubles the frame as individual fields that contain the same information. So you see, it's not as simple, or as complex as you think. I personally will wait for the Z1 and switch to 25fps 50i for my film out applications, and 30fps 60i for video only stuff. Hope this helps Rob

December 8th, 2004, 11:52 AM	#28
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	links don't work!