What does 60p footage look like? at DVinfo.net

Bill Edmunds · June 10th, 2009, 10:21 AM

My understanding is that 60p has a smooth, interlaced look. If so, is there any advantage of 60p as opposed to 60i as far as the way it looks? Does it look like video or film (so to speak)? Moreover, what difference would I notice in footage that is true 60p (as in the JVC JD200) compared to 60p over 60i footage (as in the Panny HPX170)?

Juan Todoli · June 10th, 2009, 11:44 AM

In my particular case, that if I shoot in 720 60p instead 30p, camera changes HD to SD.

I have a JVC GY HD110

Cheers Bill.

Cole McDonald · June 10th, 2009, 11:47 AM

The "P" specifically says it is not interlaced. played back at 60fps speed, it'll give a more lifelike image. More often, it's used to do 50% slowmo. Played back at 30P, every 1/60th sec frame occupies 1/30 of a second. So every 1 second of footage you shot is stretched out seamlessly to 2 seconds.

Bill Edmunds · June 10th, 2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole McDonald

The "P" specifically says it is not interlaced. played back at 60fps speed, it'll give a more lifelike image. More often, it's used to do 50% slowmo. Played back at 30P, every 1/60th sec frame occupies 1/30 of a second. So every 1 second of footage you shot is stretched out seamlessly to 2 seconds.

I completely understand the differences from a technical standpoint. I'm asking what they look like to the naked eye.

Shaun Roemich · June 10th, 2009, 12:10 PM

Bill, 60P doesn't look EXACTLY like 60i. It looks a little like shooting with a SLIGHTLY increased shutter speed, introducing less motion blur and thereby creating a SLIGHT strobing effect. I find it beautiful but it's not the same as 60i so it's still a "look".

Shaun Roemich · June 10th, 2009, 12:11 PM

If you've seen SD at 60i shot with a 1/125 or 1/250 shutter, it looks SOMETHING like that.

Shaun Roemich · June 10th, 2009, 12:14 PM

Thank Mr. Eric G. for these! Made my decision for me last year.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-gy-hd...lls-video.html

Bill Edmunds · June 10th, 2009, 12:15 PM

Shaun, thanks for the info. I have a clearer idea now. Does the 60p setting use a shutter speed of 60 by default? If you lowered it to 30, would it become more strobe-y (sort of like when you shoot with a ss of 30 in 60i)?

Shaun Roemich · June 10th, 2009, 12:18 PM

Check the link I posted whilst you were formulating your response. 60P by default uses 1/60 shutter.

Bill Edmunds · June 10th, 2009, 12:31 PM

Thanks for those terrific clips. I note that 60p footage is noticeably darker than the 30p stuff at the same shutter speeds. Is this normal?

It also appears to me that the 60p/30ss clip looks like it has better resolution in the trees than the 60p/60ss clip. Huh?

Graham Hickling · June 10th, 2009, 11:34 PM

What it looks like depends A LOT on what you are watching it on ....

Ron Evans · June 11th, 2009, 09:14 PM

60P and 60i with 1/60th shutter will have the same temporal motion so will look the same depending on what you watch it on. 60P on a flat panel ( LCD or Plasma at 60hz refresh) will look very similar to 60i on a CRT viewed at or beyond the recommended viewing distance( outside the distance where scan lines can be seen to let the CRT phosphor and eye/brain work ) They won't look the same on the LCD or Plasma because the 60i will have to be de-interlaced and the de-interlacing method will determine what is seen more than the difference between 60p and 60i!!!! The temporal motion will be the same ( motion blur is the same because the shutter is the same 1/60 shutter but the de-interlacing will potentially introduce loss of vertical resolution and other artifacts which will not be present in the 60p image( as long as they both started out the same vertical and horizontal resolution). In a lot of the current batch of new camcorders the sensor block and DSP are already 60p at source and just record what is selected by the user and to the selected media. In other words the electronics can either record the whole frame bit map every 1/60 sec or selectively odd or even fields from each 1/60 sec progressive frame for the interlace recording. I think Sanyo VPC-FH1 and VPC-HD2000 are the only consumer cams that record full HD 1920x1080 at 60p. Some of the Panasonic camera record 1280x720P60 as well as 1440x180i or 1920x1080i.

Ron Evans

Shaun Roemich · June 11th, 2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

60P and 60i with 1/60th shutter will have the same temporal motion so will look the same depending on what you watch it on. 60P on a flat panel ( LCD or Plasma at 60hz refresh) will look very similar to 60i on a CRT

I respectfully disagree. 60P and 60i do not look the same but have similarities.

60i looks real. 60P looks "hyper" real.

Graham Hickling · June 11th, 2009, 10:50 PM

>> 60i looks real. 60P looks "hyper" real.

On what? As Ron points out, the end result is largely determined by the display technology you choose to view on.

Jack Zhang · June 12th, 2009, 12:05 AM

When it comes to compression, 720p60 is much better when it comes to high-motion compensation.

on a static 60i image, if each field is displayed linearly, still images will flicker and high resolution sources will also flicker. 60p never flickers so it's much better for slow-motion and static images.

June 10th, 2009, 10:21 AM	#1
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	What does 60p footage look like? My understanding is that 60p has a smooth, interlaced look. If so, is there any advantage of 60p as opposed to 60i as far as the way it looks? Does it look like video or film (so to speak)? Moreover, what difference would I notice in footage that is true 60p (as in the JVC JD200) compared to 60p over 60i footage (as in the Panny HPX170)?

June 10th, 2009, 11:47 AM	#3
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	The "P" specifically says it is not interlaced. played back at 60fps speed, it'll give a more lifelike image. More often, it's used to do 50% slowmo. Played back at 30P, every 1/60th sec frame occupies 1/30 of a second. So every 1 second of footage you shot is stretched out seamlessly to 2 seconds. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

June 10th, 2009, 12:10 PM	#5
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Bill, 60P doesn't look EXACTLY like 60i. It looks a little like shooting with a SLIGHTLY increased shutter speed, introducing less motion blur and thereby creating a SLIGHT strobing effect. I find it beautiful but it's not the same as 60i so it's still a "look". __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

June 10th, 2009, 12:11 PM	#6
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	If you've seen SD at 60i shot with a 1/125 or 1/250 shutter, it looks SOMETHING like that. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

June 10th, 2009, 12:14 PM	#7
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Thank Mr. Eric G. for these! Made my decision for me last year. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-gy-hd...lls-video.html __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

June 10th, 2009, 11:44 AM	#2
Juan Todoli Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Gandia, Spain Posts: 68	In my particular case, that if I shoot in 720 60p instead 30p, camera changes HD to SD. I have a JVC GY HD110 Cheers Bill.

June 10th, 2009, 12:15 PM	#8
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	Shaun, thanks for the info. I have a clearer idea now. Does the 60p setting use a shutter speed of 60 by default? If you lowered it to 30, would it become more strobe-y (sort of like when you shoot with a ss of 30 in 60i)?

June 10th, 2009, 12:18 PM	#9
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Check the link I posted whilst you were formulating your response. 60P by default uses 1/60 shutter. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

June 10th, 2009, 12:31 PM	#10
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	Thanks for those terrific clips. I note that 60p footage is noticeably darker than the 30p stuff at the same shutter speeds. Is this normal? It also appears to me that the 60p/30ss clip looks like it has better resolution in the trees than the 60p/60ss clip. Huh?

June 10th, 2009, 11:34 PM	#11
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	What it looks like depends A LOT on what you are watching it on ....

June 11th, 2009, 09:14 PM	#12
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	60P and 60i with 1/60th shutter will have the same temporal motion so will look the same depending on what you watch it on. 60P on a flat panel ( LCD or Plasma at 60hz refresh) will look very similar to 60i on a CRT viewed at or beyond the recommended viewing distance( outside the distance where scan lines can be seen to let the CRT phosphor and eye/brain work ) They won't look the same on the LCD or Plasma because the 60i will have to be de-interlaced and the de-interlacing method will determine what is seen more than the difference between 60p and 60i!!!! The temporal motion will be the same ( motion blur is the same because the shutter is the same 1/60 shutter but the de-interlacing will potentially introduce loss of vertical resolution and other artifacts which will not be present in the 60p image( as long as they both started out the same vertical and horizontal resolution). In a lot of the current batch of new camcorders the sensor block and DSP are already 60p at source and just record what is selected by the user and to the selected media. In other words the electronics can either record the whole frame bit map every 1/60 sec or selectively odd or even fields from each 1/60 sec progressive frame for the interlace recording. I think Sanyo VPC-FH1 and VPC-HD2000 are the only consumer cams that record full HD 1920x1080 at 60p. Some of the Panasonic camera record 1280x720P60 as well as 1440x180i or 1920x1080i. Ron Evans

June 11th, 2009, 10:50 PM	#14
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	>> 60i looks real. 60P looks "hyper" real. On what? As Ron points out, the end result is largely determined by the display technology you choose to view on.

June 12th, 2009, 12:05 AM	#15
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	When it comes to compression, 720p60 is much better when it comes to high-motion compensation. on a static 60i image, if each field is displayed linearly, still images will flicker and high resolution sources will also flicker. 60p never flickers so it's much better for slow-motion and static images.