FX1000 vs AG-HMC150, esp. in low light? at DVinfo.net

Graham Hickling · November 24th, 2008, 09:15 AM

If anyone gets a chance to do any side-by-side comparisons of the images from these two cameras, please post your impressions!

Juan Hernandez · November 26th, 2008, 08:16 PM

I guess nobody has done something like that, since the fx1000 has been out for only few weeks I 'm waiting for this also. I want to buy either one But I want to see some comparasion en both cameras, hope somebody will post something soon!

Greg Laves · November 27th, 2008, 06:48 PM

I am not a Panasonic expert but isn't the low light capability of the AG-HMC150 basically the same as the HVX200a? If it is, then the FX1000/Z5 will do obviously better in low light.

Juan Hernandez · December 4th, 2008, 04:30 PM

I think the panasonic will be a better camera and the price tells everything. you are talking around $ 2000 dlls. diference from the fx 1000. I'm just not so sure about the quality when you record on sdhc cards comparing with hdv format vs. avchd for me is very important to have a master tape for future references with the clients but that's just me. the fx 1000 is a great camera but I think the panasonic is in a diferent level than the sony one thing that I hate about the fx 1000 is the lack of xlr inputs for people who record weddings and concerts is a must have with this louds dj's and bands you can't record a decent audio with the microphone from the camera, plus By the time you buy and xlr adapter you will be looking at the almost same price than the 150

Graham Hickling · December 4th, 2008, 04:42 PM

I think you have in mind a different Panasonic model - there is about $100 difference in street price, not $2000, between the AG-HMC150 and the FX1000. Also, the FX1000 does have mic in ... just not balanced XLR.

Norman Gaddis · December 4th, 2008, 08:10 PM

I bought an FX1000 last week. It's an awesome camera but I really want to get out of the tape business as much as possible (I'm sick of dealing with headclogs and dropouts), so I bought an HMC150 this week. It'll be here tomorrow. Once it arrives and I've had some time to play with it I'll post my thoughts comparing the 2 cams.

My biz is 100% weddings and I'm a one man band. I plan to use both the HMC and the FX1000 together at the ceremony (in most instances the Panny will be unmanned B roll). I'll then use the Panny for all reception coverage. I hope to be able to satisfactorily match the two cams in post. If I cannot make it work, I'll sell the FX and buy another HMC.

I considered buying the Sony CF recorder along with another FX1000 but after receiving the FX last week I realized that just wouldn't work for me. Two reasons:

1) the location of the firewire port. The port is on the back of the camera. Plug a firewire cable in there and it'll stick straight out the back. It'll be far too easy for it to get bumped and break the cam's firewire port. If one could buy a very short cable with a 90 degree plug on one end, it might be okay.

2) the FX1000 has only one accessory shoe and the cam is fairly front heavy. I shoot receptions with an on-cam light that must be mounted on the accessory shoe, leaving no where to mount the CF recorder without adding some sort of dual shoe adapter. Placing the CF recorder with its battery on the front of the cam along with a light would make it far too front heavy.

I didn't think the FX1000's rolling shutter would be an issue but after viewing several clips at Vimeo this past week, I changed my mind. I know this isn't a problem for a lot of folks, but for me it's a deal breaker. Some of my best work are my first dance slomo scenes. The photogs in this neck of the woods are taking the "cast a huge net and you're bound to catch some fish" approach. They're bringing in 2-4 photographers and all of them shoot the main reception events simultaneously from different angles, almost in rapid fire mode. Add in a few guests shooting their digital cams and it's like the 4th of July. Try putting that in slomo with all of those white bars appearing randomly onscreen. No thanks!

I've been shooting with Sony cams since the VX1000 was released. I've gone thru 2 VX1k's, 2 VX2k's, and 2 VX2100's. I was excited last week when the FX1000 arrived. However, I must admit I'm even more excited about getting my hands on the HMC tomorrow.

Greg Laves · December 5th, 2008, 08:54 AM

Well, the jury is still out. Who knows, Norman, you might be more excited about the FX1000 after you get your Pana HMC. There are some frame grab comparrisons on the forum of the FX1000 vs. the VX2100 in low light under identical conditions/settings. The FX1000 looks pretty darned amazing. Good luck with your evaluation and let us know the results.

Norman Gaddis · December 5th, 2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Laves

Well, the jury is still out. Who knows, Norman, you might be more excited about the FX1000 after you get your Pana HMC. There are some frame grab comparrisons on the forum of the FX1000 vs. the VX2100 in low light under identical conditions/settings. The FX1000 looks pretty darned amazing. Good luck with your evaluation and let us know the results.

I agree that low light is mega important and in all likelihood the FX will best the HMC here. However, low light isn't everything. The ability to forego tapes using a $3400 camera is very appealing, plus no rolling shutter, and it's much less front-heavy. The HMC will most likely be used for B roll at the ceremony, typically in the rear of the sanctuary running unmanned at a fixed wide angle. I'll also use it to shoot all of the reception footage. I use an on-cam light at the reception, so low light there isn't as much of an issue.

If I can successfully match these two cameras in post, I'll have the best (and worst!) both have to offer.

This post must end... UPS is at the door!

Michael Kraus · December 5th, 2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Gaddis

This post must end... UPS is at the door!

ha, that's awesome. now that we know you have your hmc150, you are officially held responsible to give us some incredible feedback by the end of the day :D

Stu Holmes · December 5th, 2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Laves

There are some frame grab comparrisons on the forum of the FX1000 vs. the VX2100 in low light under identical conditions/settings. The FX1000 looks pretty darned amazing.

Greg - i've searched in vain for those FX1000 vs VX2100 lowlight frame grabs on the forum.

Please could you post up a link or tell me which thread they're in ? thanks!

EDIT: It's ok, now found it!

Norman Gaddis · December 5th, 2008, 09:27 PM

After playing with both cameras today my conclusions are the FX1000 is slightly brighter but with just a tad more grain. The HMC150 is barely darker but cleaner. Indoors, even with a fair amount of light the FX still has a little more grain than the HMC. But, the FX has better detail. Both have their strong and weak points. The FX is a far better looking piece of gear but the HMC is MUCH better balanced with better controls (like Jeff Harper, I DESPISE the menu wheel on the FX!). I compared the 2 cameras by hooking them up to my 50" Samsung 720p plasma via HDMI. With minimal tweaking in post I think they'll cut together well.

Considering that these cameras cost essentially the same, I think the HMC is a better value due to:

1) it's tapeless. Bye bye dropouts & headclogs.

2) the difference in image quality is almost nil.

3) XLR audio.

4) it's lighter.

5) no rolling shutter.

6) three year warranty.

To get XLR and tapeless with Sony you have to cough up $1700 more. The difference in image quality isn't worth it, IMO.

Graham Hickling · December 5th, 2008, 10:37 PM

OK, but ... maybe should price in the more powerful computer needed for smooth editing of ACVHD?

Norman Gaddis · December 6th, 2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

OK, but ... maybe should price in the more powerful computer needed for smooth editing of ACVHD?

Not really. I edit with Edius/HDStorm, so I must transcode the AVCHD files to Canopus HQ first (my system is a Q6600 quad core and isn't fast enough to edit native AVCHD). I have a couple of older PCs that aren't fast enough for HD editing but come in handy for transcoding, capturing, etc.

Copying the .mts files to the PC takes just a few minutes. Transcoding takes longer but with my workflow it will not slow me down. I'll transcode on one PC while I edit on another. Plus, the time saved by not having to capture the footage in real time almost offsets the time spent transcoding.

Right now my biggest concern is whether I should continue archiving all my raw footage or sell it for cheap to the clients. I've been saving everything since about 2000. I have a bazillion mini-DV tapes stored in boxes and I'm running out of space. From now on I'm considering just offering all of the original AVCHD files burned to a Blu-ray "data" disc, along with the 1 tape from the FX1000, to the client. I suspect I'll have a lot of clients that will initially opt for SD DVDs only but may want Blu-ray down the road.

Juan Hernandez · December 6th, 2008, 10:41 AM

I think this is a critical moment for some of us to decide what to buy. in my case I have owned sony cameras for long time started with the vx1000 and so on and always been very happy BUT!!!! with all this new cameras offering many formats of recordings we have to figure it out what is giong to stick in the future of video productions.
as you were saying for rigth now almost nobody ask for a bluray disc for their wedding or quinceañera( sweet 15) in my case but we have to think ahead. one thing I love about the hmc is the ability to record tapeless I think this is going to be the new era for people like me who started in this bussines since the vhs tape was the 8 wonder, and every time I needed some footage from my shootings was so easy for me to pull a tape and grab what I needed. with this new technology I think or footage will be lost forever if we are not carefull how we handle it, but I think we just need to adjust to what is new and learn to trust or new computers on archive our treasure videos isn't rigth?

Monday Isa · December 6th, 2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan Hernandez

...as you were saying for rigth now almost nobody ask for a bluray disc for their wedding or quinceañera( sweet 15) in my case...

Hey Juan can I email off the board? I would like to talk to you about Quinceanera's?

November 24th, 2008, 09:15 AM	#1
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	FX1000 vs AG-HMC150, esp. in low light? If anyone gets a chance to do any side-by-side comparisons of the images from these two cameras, please post your impressions!

November 26th, 2008, 08:16 PM	#2
Juan Hernandez New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Holladay Utah Posts: 22	I guess nobody has done something like that, since the fx1000 has been out for only few weeks I 'm waiting for this also. I want to buy either one But I want to see some comparasion en both cameras, hope somebody will post something soon!

November 27th, 2008, 06:48 PM	#3
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	I am not a Panasonic expert but isn't the low light capability of the AG-HMC150 basically the same as the HVX200a? If it is, then the FX1000/Z5 will do obviously better in low light.

December 4th, 2008, 04:30 PM	#4
Juan Hernandez New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Holladay Utah Posts: 22	I think the panasonic will be a better camera and the price tells everything. you are talking around $ 2000 dlls. diference from the fx 1000. I'm just not so sure about the quality when you record on sdhc cards comparing with hdv format vs. avchd for me is very important to have a master tape for future references with the clients but that's just me. the fx 1000 is a great camera but I think the panasonic is in a diferent level than the sony one thing that I hate about the fx 1000 is the lack of xlr inputs for people who record weddings and concerts is a must have with this louds dj's and bands you can't record a decent audio with the microphone from the camera, plus By the time you buy and xlr adapter you will be looking at the almost same price than the 150

December 4th, 2008, 04:42 PM	#5
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	I think you have in mind a different Panasonic model - there is about $100 difference in street price, not $2000, between the AG-HMC150 and the FX1000. Also, the FX1000 does have mic in ... just not balanced XLR.

December 4th, 2008, 08:10 PM	#6
Norman Gaddis New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Buford, Georgia Posts: 23	I bought an FX1000 last week. It's an awesome camera but I really want to get out of the tape business as much as possible (I'm sick of dealing with headclogs and dropouts), so I bought an HMC150 this week. It'll be here tomorrow. Once it arrives and I've had some time to play with it I'll post my thoughts comparing the 2 cams. My biz is 100% weddings and I'm a one man band. I plan to use both the HMC and the FX1000 together at the ceremony (in most instances the Panny will be unmanned B roll). I'll then use the Panny for all reception coverage. I hope to be able to satisfactorily match the two cams in post. If I cannot make it work, I'll sell the FX and buy another HMC. I considered buying the Sony CF recorder along with another FX1000 but after receiving the FX last week I realized that just wouldn't work for me. Two reasons: 1) the location of the firewire port. The port is on the back of the camera. Plug a firewire cable in there and it'll stick straight out the back. It'll be far too easy for it to get bumped and break the cam's firewire port. If one could buy a very short cable with a 90 degree plug on one end, it might be okay. 2) the FX1000 has only one accessory shoe and the cam is fairly front heavy. I shoot receptions with an on-cam light that must be mounted on the accessory shoe, leaving no where to mount the CF recorder without adding some sort of dual shoe adapter. Placing the CF recorder with its battery on the front of the cam along with a light would make it far too front heavy. I didn't think the FX1000's rolling shutter would be an issue but after viewing several clips at Vimeo this past week, I changed my mind. I know this isn't a problem for a lot of folks, but for me it's a deal breaker. Some of my best work are my first dance slomo scenes. The photogs in this neck of the woods are taking the "cast a huge net and you're bound to catch some fish" approach. They're bringing in 2-4 photographers and all of them shoot the main reception events simultaneously from different angles, almost in rapid fire mode. Add in a few guests shooting their digital cams and it's like the 4th of July. Try putting that in slomo with all of those white bars appearing randomly onscreen. No thanks! I've been shooting with Sony cams since the VX1000 was released. I've gone thru 2 VX1k's, 2 VX2k's, and 2 VX2100's. I was excited last week when the FX1000 arrived. However, I must admit I'm even more excited about getting my hands on the HMC tomorrow.

December 5th, 2008, 08:54 AM	#7
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	Well, the jury is still out. Who knows, Norman, you might be more excited about the FX1000 after you get your Pana HMC. There are some frame grab comparrisons on the forum of the FX1000 vs. the VX2100 in low light under identical conditions/settings. The FX1000 looks pretty darned amazing. Good luck with your evaluation and let us know the results.

December 5th, 2008, 09:27 PM	#11
Norman Gaddis New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Buford, Georgia Posts: 23	After playing with both cameras today my conclusions are the FX1000 is slightly brighter but with just a tad more grain. The HMC150 is barely darker but cleaner. Indoors, even with a fair amount of light the FX still has a little more grain than the HMC. But, the FX has better detail. Both have their strong and weak points. The FX is a far better looking piece of gear but the HMC is MUCH better balanced with better controls (like Jeff Harper, I DESPISE the menu wheel on the FX!). I compared the 2 cameras by hooking them up to my 50" Samsung 720p plasma via HDMI. With minimal tweaking in post I think they'll cut together well. Considering that these cameras cost essentially the same, I think the HMC is a better value due to: 1) it's tapeless. Bye bye dropouts & headclogs. 2) the difference in image quality is almost nil. 3) XLR audio. 4) it's lighter. 5) no rolling shutter. 6) three year warranty. To get XLR and tapeless with Sony you have to cough up $1700 more. The difference in image quality isn't worth it, IMO.

December 5th, 2008, 10:37 PM	#12
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	OK, but ... maybe should price in the more powerful computer needed for smooth editing of ACVHD?

December 6th, 2008, 10:41 AM	#14
Juan Hernandez New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Holladay Utah Posts: 22	I think this is a critical moment for some of us to decide what to buy. in my case I have owned sony cameras for long time started with the vx1000 and so on and always been very happy BUT!!!! with all this new cameras offering many formats of recordings we have to figure it out what is giong to stick in the future of video productions. as you were saying for rigth now almost nobody ask for a bluray disc for their wedding or quinceañera( sweet 15) in my case but we have to think ahead. one thing I love about the hmc is the ability to record tapeless I think this is going to be the new era for people like me who started in this bussines since the vhs tape was the 8 wonder, and every time I needed some footage from my shootings was so easy for me to pull a tape and grab what I needed. with this new technology I think or footage will be lost forever if we are not carefull how we handle it, but I think we just need to adjust to what is new and learn to trust or new computers on archive our treasure videos isn't rigth?