Looking For Some Input

[Rob Alderman]

There is such a variety of forums here I figure this one was as good as any to ask this question.

As a forums owner myself I realize that there will be numerous opinions and I encourage all of them,as this will help me make my decision.

I have read and and read reviews and all the above about the consumer/prosumer HDV cams.

I realize that there is a difference between HDV cams and the Pro level HD cams.I understand that the HD quality between the 2 is considerable and may be misleading in way the HDV final product really is,as opposed to a true HD cam.

I am curious if I could get away with using some Sony HDV-HC9s for broadcast.I would like to put them into some Amphibico housings and use them for underwater shots.I would be using on average 7-10 mins of clips in the broadcast.

I have renowned offshore bluewater to film in,so clearity and viz are usually not an issue,along with natural lighting.

I am curious to get input about this from anyone and especially those that have used them or seen them used in such a manner.

I would prefer to start up with these cams for now from budget stand point ( having to convert from SD) and because they are small and be manuevered quickly,as these will be used in high action underwater shots and sometimes being able to move fast can make a big difference wether you get back into the boat or not :)

I've been using a VX 2000 in a Bluefin housing and the SD results were incredible,but now that the time to switch has come I have some serious decisions to make to be able to get the HD project moving.

Thanks for your help..Rob

[Perrone Ford]

The term "Broadcast" casts a wide net. But frankly, most stations have minimum specifications of materials they will accept. And with the exception of maybe the local access channel, HDV just doesn't meet the standards. In fact, most of the sub $10k cameras don't meet it either.

[David Beisner]

About the only one you're going to find in the sub $10k market that is accepted by most major broadcasters is the HVX200 because you can shoot in DVCProHD. It's comparably in size to the VX2000 (about the same length, but a good bit fatter). The only downfall there is that you'll have some significant expense in P2 media. The Sony PMW-EX1 is accepted by a lot of them (Discovery channel accepts that one), but it's a good bit bigger than the HVX or VX2000. It's also pretty pricey and you'll still have the downfall of the price of the SxS media.

Though I don't know for sure what the regs are, JVC's ProHD might be accepted by some of them. Those cameras are a LOT bigger though, because they're designed as shoulder-mount cameras.

The broadcast markets are going to be looking at native resolution, compression schemes, and color space. HDV's downfall comes in the tight compression scheme and the 4:2:0 color space. The only sub-$10k camera with a 4:2:2 color space is from Panasonic. Their HVX200A and HPX170 cameras are $5k and $6k respectively and both shoot 4:2:2 in DVCProHD. The HPX170 is going to be a little leaner and lighter (no tape drive) but it's also not on the market until September.

[Glenn Fisher]

I don't know too much about this subject, but I was just reading a similar post on this forum yesterday (http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...870#post913870).

It sounds like on The Deadliest Catch they do have a bunch of fairly cheap Sony HDV camcorders (HDR-HC7's I believe) in underwater housings that they have mounted to the ship's deck. One of the posts suggested though that they had to have special permission from the Discovery Network in order to use those cameras, and the only reason that they are allowed to do so is because they are constantly killing those cameras with the sea-water and having to purchase new ones.

I would say that it might be possible depending on the network and the kind of content. But contact your prospective network(s) about it first.

[Perrone Ford]

DVCProHD has it's issues as well. And many HD broadcasters will not accept it as primary HD footage. Yes it is 4;2:2, but its 4:2:2 on 960x720 or 1280x1080. The resolution really suffers in this codec. Since it offers resolution below that of HDV (1440x1080) classifying it becomes problematic. To be honest, 4:2:2 sampling on a 1280x1080 signal isn't a lot better than 4:2:0 on a 1920x1080 signal.

P2 and SxS are both expensive, though you do get more recording time with SxS for the same money. A small benefit, but worth mentioning.

Originally Posted by David Beisner

About the only one you're going to find in the sub $10k market that is accepted by most major broadcasters is the HVX200 because you can shoot in DVCProHD. It's comparably in size to the VX2000 (about the same length, but a good bit fatter). The only downfall there is that you'll have some significant expense in P2 media. The Sony PMW-EX1 is accepted by a lot of them (Discovery channel accepts that one), but it's a good bit bigger than the HVX or VX2000. It's also pretty pricey and you'll still have the downfall of the price of the SxS media.

Though I don't know for sure what the regs are, JVC's ProHD might be accepted by some of them. Those cameras are a LOT bigger though, because they're designed as shoulder-mount cameras.

The broadcast markets are going to be looking at native resolution, compression schemes, and color space. HDV's downfall comes in the tight compression scheme and the 4:2:0 color space. The only sub-$10k camera with a 4:2:2 color space is from Panasonic. Their HVX200A and HPX170 cameras are $5k and $6k respectively and both shoot 4:2:2 in DVCProHD. The HPX170 is going to be a little leaner and lighter (no tape drive) but it's also not on the market until September.

[Rick L. Allen]

Glenn is correct. Discovery limits the amount of footage than can be used from such camera's as Z1's and V1's and they will be even less forgiving of footage from single chip HDV camera's. But you should ask your broadcaster what they want.

[Chris Harris]

Originally Posted by Rick L. Allen

Glenn is correct. Discovery limits the amount of footage than can be used from such camera's as Z1's and V1's and they will be even less forgiving of footage from single chip HDV camera's. But you should ask your broadcaster what they want.

This has been discussed on here before, but it's been theorized that if the content is good enough, shot well and compelling, they won't care what you filmed on. I watched an hour-long program on Discovery (I think?) of which the main focus was shaky, rough, SD footage of some animals fighting. And of course Mythbusters and Deadliest Catch use single-chippers all over the place. I have a feeling these rules are broken all the time.

[Rick L. Allen]

Chris, Agreed. But it's a fishing show not a one of kind, inaccessible event or location. As always these are just guidelines. Take for example the Nat Geo show that used the home video of the crocodile playing tug of war with a lion. The original clip was SD but the rest of the show was HDCAM. And Dangerous Catch is the exception not the rule. Will the Outdoor Channel take a show shot on single chippers - probably. Will Discovery or Nat Geo accept a single chip fishing show - not likely.

Check my previous posts for the producer guidelines by the big boys. I had an inquiry 2 summers ago for a fishing show for ESPN shot on the Outer Banks of NC and the minimum camera was a Varicam. As always ask your broadcaster.