HDV vs. DVCProHD

Tom Roper · July 9th, 2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Beisner

--something along the lines of the Canon XH-A1 or equivalent. But those use the HDV codec which, I've learned from my research, is a pain to work with. Am I right about that?

HDV is not a pain to work with at all. If you use an editor that edits mpeg2 natively, you can put it straight onto Blu-ray without ever rendering anything.

David Beisner · July 10th, 2008, 12:59 PM

Thanks, all for your input.

We decided on the HVX200A, knowing already about the issues with the viewfinder and LCD. We certainly can't afford the EX3s and with the sports coverage that we'll be doing, I didn't want to mess with the rolling shutter of the CMOS sensor in the EX1.

My field audio kit is sort of rigged--not the greatest, but it will work. I've got a Sennheiser G2 wireless and ME66/K6 shotgun with a boom which I'll just record straight to the camera. Then, if I need to do multitracking for anything, I have a 24 channel studio recording system based around the Alesis HD24 that is designed to be mobile (I do a lot of on-location audio work) so I can pack that whole thing up, use my good studio mics, and run it on-location if I need to. Not as mobile as I'd like since I have to be tied either to power or to my truck using an inverter, but it will work. For now, anyway, until we can afford more.

Good points on the student's being able to use the pro grade lenses. One of my biggest concerns is having something that will get students familiar enough with a professional grade camera that they can go out and use one fairly quickly if they need to. I know there's a lot of different cameras out there, and short of having an EX1, HVX200A, and HD200U, we really won't have any way to get them familiar with multiple cameras. I had the opportunity to work with a Varicam a couple weeks ago and I really enjoyed it. It was definitely different from the HVX200A. I'm hoping that by next year when we get ready to purchase for the other departments, we can afford an HPX900 or 3000 with the interchangeable lenses and the more professional manual features.

Camera should be here middle of next week and I can't wait to get working with it! Until now, the nicest thing I've ever used (aside from the Varicam) is a VX2000 and a GL2.

Dennis Robinson · July 17th, 2008, 07:35 PM

I think that's a shame. I have the JVC111 and loved it till I tried the EX1. I couldn't believe the difference in low light and the LCD has to be seen to be believed. The only thing for me was the EX1 is so ugly and handycam looking (but good friends with the HVX look in that department). I am hoping the EX3 looks better and then I can move up when it comes out. I will have to rig it up with a matte box to make it look like a pro camera to clients. It's just a shame that you were limited by a few thousand dollars to spend.

David Heath · July 18th, 2008, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson

It's just a shame that you were limited by a few thousand dollars to spend.

I agree. It's also quite conceivable that although you may not be spending as much on the camera itself, you'll need to spend a lot more on media and the overall difference won't be as much as you envisage. Don't be fooled by the per GB prices (which are similar), remember SxS holds three times as much material per GB as P2 due to the different data rate.

Did you look at the Z7/S270? If every last penny is a problem I'd have been very inclined to go down that path.

Arlen Sahakian · July 24th, 2008, 03:35 AM

hey guys theres too much information here, well i'm an event videographer mostly weddings
and im interested little bit in quality and i was confused between EX1 and Z7 and i think i will go with z7, can anyone give me some hints

Kevin Shaw · July 24th, 2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlen Sahakian

hey guys theres too much information here, well i'm an event videographer mostly weddings
and im interested little bit in quality and i was confused between EX1 and Z7 and i think i will go with z7, can anyone give me some hints

That's an off-topic question, but the short answer is that many wedding videographers are choosing the Z7U over the EX1 for practical reasons. For more details try posting in the wedding / event section.

Arlen Sahakian · July 25th, 2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin Shaw

that's An Off-topic Question, But The Short Answer Is That Many Wedding Videographers Are Choosing The Z7u Over The Ex1 For Practical Reasons. For More Details Try Posting In The Wedding / Event Section.

Thank You Kevin

David Beisner · August 6th, 2008, 08:58 AM

Well... a week after I had posted saying the camera should be in next week, I discovered that it hadn't even been ordered yet! Then my boss came back to me and said that they had a sudden budget crisis and needed me to get everything for as dirt cheap as possible--said that I pretty much had to go under $10k.

Inside I'm like "WHAT??? Under $10k for a full HD system??!!" but we did it... sort of.

Two weeks ago I got my XH-A1 in the mail. Good camera and I'm happy with it, but I do wish I could have gotten something tapeless (obviously with budget constraints we won't be purchasing a firestore anytime soon!!).

Had to take cuts on the audio and tripod stuff too--they cut out my Libec and got a cheapo Bogen 055XB sticks with the 501HDV head. The head is alright (not a fan) but the sticks suck. Not nearly good enough for the weight of this camera--B&H actually recommends them for still photography!! On the audio side of things, they bought me only the ME66 with no mounting hardware, no windscreen, no boom, no nothing. So I had to run to Lowe's and do a DIY boom pole and zeppelin for it. Works, but not great and it's crazy heavy.

On the computer side, I got cut back from FCP on an octo-core Mac to Premiere CS3 on a quad-core PC. I'm okay with that, though--I already know Premiere and with no prior experience on a Mac, I was a little hesitant about learning the Mac along with learning FCP.

So, that's where I'm at. I'm hoping that we can look at an HPX500, EX3, or HD250U next year. I'm hoping I can get a better tripod within a month or so... this one just ain't gonna cut it...

Tim Polster · August 6th, 2008, 10:21 AM

Ah, the all to familiar budget restriction in the HD world.

I am sure you will get nice images with your equipment that can be used to further your goals and maybe upgrade in the future.

HD at SD prices is my view of where the -other than broadcast world- is it at right now.

At least until Blu-ray comes on and the quality difference is quite noticeable to the end user.

David Beisner · August 7th, 2008, 09:02 AM

Yeah, the prevalence of Blu-Ray is a limiting factor to us right now. We'd like to be able to distribute lots of our videos on Blu-Ray for potential donors, but it's just not worth it right now.

Tom Roper · August 7th, 2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Beisner

Yeah, the prevalence of Blu-Ray is a limiting factor to us right now. We'd like to be able to distribute lots of our videos on Blu-Ray for potential donors, but it's just not worth it right now.

Why? You don't even need a blu-ray burner or blu-ray media to put up to 45 minutes of gorgeous XH-A1 hi-def footage onto a $2 DVD9 disk compatible with most blu-ray standalone players and about 5 million PS3s.

Robert M Wright · August 7th, 2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

Why? You don't even need a blu-ray burner or blu-ray media to put up to 45 minutes of gorgeous XH-A1 hi-def footage onto a $2 DVD9 disk compatible with most blu-ray standalone players and about 5 million PS3s.

Or 20 minutes or so on a DVD5 for a few pennies.

Tim Polster · August 7th, 2008, 10:18 PM

I think the player adoption is the issue, not the actual discs themselves.

DVD is still the standard in the majority of consumers' minds imho.

Benjamin Hill · August 8th, 2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

I think the player adoption is the issue, not the actual discs themselves.

DVD is still the standard in the majority of consumers' minds imho.

Agreed. I think much of the hype for HD is driven by the industry, including us, rather than media consumers, and time will tell of course but DVDs are still going pretty strong.

Sherif Choudhry · August 9th, 2008, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Hill

Agreed. I think much of the hype for HD is driven by the industry, including us, rather than media consumers, and time will tell of course but DVDs are still going pretty strong.

I cant help but agree, nobody i know even speaks about blue-ray or demands it - they are just about being bowled over at HDV footage on SD DVD. 1-2 years before consumers demand blue-ray as mainstream.

July 10th, 2008, 12:59 PM	#17
David Beisner Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dayton, TN (USA) Posts: 219	Thanks, all for your input. We decided on the HVX200A, knowing already about the issues with the viewfinder and LCD. We certainly can't afford the EX3s and with the sports coverage that we'll be doing, I didn't want to mess with the rolling shutter of the CMOS sensor in the EX1. My field audio kit is sort of rigged--not the greatest, but it will work. I've got a Sennheiser G2 wireless and ME66/K6 shotgun with a boom which I'll just record straight to the camera. Then, if I need to do multitracking for anything, I have a 24 channel studio recording system based around the Alesis HD24 that is designed to be mobile (I do a lot of on-location audio work) so I can pack that whole thing up, use my good studio mics, and run it on-location if I need to. Not as mobile as I'd like since I have to be tied either to power or to my truck using an inverter, but it will work. For now, anyway, until we can afford more. Good points on the student's being able to use the pro grade lenses. One of my biggest concerns is having something that will get students familiar enough with a professional grade camera that they can go out and use one fairly quickly if they need to. I know there's a lot of different cameras out there, and short of having an EX1, HVX200A, and HD200U, we really won't have any way to get them familiar with multiple cameras. I had the opportunity to work with a Varicam a couple weeks ago and I really enjoyed it. It was definitely different from the HVX200A. I'm hoping that by next year when we get ready to purchase for the other departments, we can afford an HPX900 or 3000 with the interchangeable lenses and the more professional manual features. Camera should be here middle of next week and I can't wait to get working with it! Until now, the nicest thing I've ever used (aside from the Varicam) is a VX2000 and a GL2. __________________ David Beisner Media Specialist, Bryan College, Dayton, TN -- www.bryan.edu

July 17th, 2008, 07:35 PM	#18
Dennis Robinson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 250	I think that's a shame. I have the JVC111 and loved it till I tried the EX1. I couldn't believe the difference in low light and the LCD has to be seen to be believed. The only thing for me was the EX1 is so ugly and handycam looking (but good friends with the HVX look in that department). I am hoping the EX3 looks better and then I can move up when it comes out. I will have to rig it up with a matte box to make it look like a pro camera to clients. It's just a shame that you were limited by a few thousand dollars to spend. __________________ Dennis Robinson G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111

July 24th, 2008, 03:35 AM	#20
Arlen Sahakian Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lebanon Posts: 30	hey guys theres too much information here, well i'm an event videographer mostly weddings and im interested little bit in quality and i was confused between EX1 and Z7 and i think i will go with z7, can anyone give me some hints __________________ WWW.DMEDIUS.COM

August 6th, 2008, 08:58 AM	#23
David Beisner Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dayton, TN (USA) Posts: 219	Well... a week after I had posted saying the camera should be in next week, I discovered that it hadn't even been ordered yet! Then my boss came back to me and said that they had a sudden budget crisis and needed me to get everything for as dirt cheap as possible--said that I pretty much had to go under $10k. Inside I'm like "WHAT??? Under $10k for a full HD system??!!" but we did it... sort of. Two weeks ago I got my XH-A1 in the mail. Good camera and I'm happy with it, but I do wish I could have gotten something tapeless (obviously with budget constraints we won't be purchasing a firestore anytime soon!!). Had to take cuts on the audio and tripod stuff too--they cut out my Libec and got a cheapo Bogen 055XB sticks with the 501HDV head. The head is alright (not a fan) but the sticks suck. Not nearly good enough for the weight of this camera--B&H actually recommends them for still photography!! On the audio side of things, they bought me only the ME66 with no mounting hardware, no windscreen, no boom, no nothing. So I had to run to Lowe's and do a DIY boom pole and zeppelin for it. Works, but not great and it's crazy heavy. On the computer side, I got cut back from FCP on an octo-core Mac to Premiere CS3 on a quad-core PC. I'm okay with that, though--I already know Premiere and with no prior experience on a Mac, I was a little hesitant about learning the Mac along with learning FCP. So, that's where I'm at. I'm hoping that we can look at an HPX500, EX3, or HD250U next year. I'm hoping I can get a better tripod within a month or so... this one just ain't gonna cut it... __________________ David Beisner Media Specialist, Bryan College, Dayton, TN -- www.bryan.edu

August 7th, 2008, 09:02 AM	#25
David Beisner Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dayton, TN (USA) Posts: 219	Yeah, the prevalence of Blu-Ray is a limiting factor to us right now. We'd like to be able to distribute lots of our videos on Blu-Ray for potential donors, but it's just not worth it right now. __________________ David Beisner Media Specialist, Bryan College, Dayton, TN -- www.bryan.edu

August 6th, 2008, 10:21 AM	#24
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Ah, the all to familiar budget restriction in the HD world. I am sure you will get nice images with your equipment that can be used to further your goals and maybe upgrade in the future. HD at SD prices is my view of where the -other than broadcast world- is it at right now. At least until Blu-ray comes on and the quality difference is quite noticeable to the end user.

August 7th, 2008, 10:18 PM	#28
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I think the player adoption is the issue, not the actual discs themselves. DVD is still the standard in the majority of consumers' minds imho.