HDV recorded tape does not produce image! at DVinfo.net

Oleg Kalyan · June 10th, 2008, 12:49 PM

I have a problem, please help! : (((

I had shoot with Canon A1 camera in HDV format, using Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ tapes,

Two tapes on playback have time code by do not show normal footage, on a slow rewind/fast forward tapes show some footage, lower part of the frame is corrupted.

Has anyone had something similar, what should I do, possibly using an HDV deck may help in reading the material.

Could re packaging tapes into different containers help, possibly tapes are defected?

Any info will be appreciated!

Chris Soucy · June 10th, 2008, 01:47 PM

This problem (or something like it) seems to crop up fairly often.

Untill this:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=122958

I had seen no solution.

Before you do anything rash with this info, a couple of provisos:

1. We have not heard how this saga played out. Apart from the two tapes apparently saved, there is no indication that it was 100% successful.

2. I strongly recommend you do NOT attempt this yourself, unless you are fully competent in tape deck maintenance. Better to park the camera and tapes in front of a competent technician and let them do it.

3. Ensure that all other possible reasons for your tape problems have been eliminated - dirty heads, damaged tapes etc etc. I can see no way this procedure can fix such problems, in fact it could turn a bad scenario into a disaster.

4. Not having independent verification of the success or otherwise of this procedure, I do not and cannot take any responsibility for it's success or failure in any circumstance.

With the above said, if you are experiencing the classic symptoms of this problem:

HDV, BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) on play, image on FF/ REW,

then this would appear to be the only solution (that I know of).

CS

PS: No, I still haven't figured out WHY it happens or WHY this works.

Dave Blackhurst · June 10th, 2008, 02:24 PM

Take the tapes out during one of the segments where you can see half the frame, pop the cover (there's a little lever on one side of the tape that you move to open the protective cover over the tape), and take a look at the physical condition of the tape - it should be "smooth" edge to edge - if you can see crinkling/wrinkling on one side or the other or both, it's likely an alignment issue or a bad tape, and unfortunately the footage won't be recoverable (physical damage to tape from bad tracking is pretty harsh).

IF the tape looks good, MAYBE it's still a minor tracking issue and you can recover some of it - the fact that you've got half the image corrupted is not encouraging, but sometimes bad alignment/tracking can be corrected for if the tape isn't trashed.

Oleg Kalyan · June 10th, 2008, 02:43 PM

Chris and Dave thank you for the info, I will do my best to use the info to save the tapes, upon examination, the tape looks OK, no visible damage..

Chris Soucy · June 10th, 2008, 03:29 PM

Will you let us know the success or otherwise with these tapes and what, exactly, you tried that both failed and worked.

I'm still trying to get independent verification of this (or any) procedures validity.

Thanks,

CS

Oleg Kalyan · June 11th, 2008, 12:26 AM

Chris, thank you, I am looking for any info from Tyler Elynuik, as what camera was used to
align the head to read corrupted tape, I am ready to sacrifice my HV20 : ((

I will also try to read tapes from Sony and JVC decks.

Thanks on any possible info,

Are there any tape recovery centers around the world that specialize on that procedure?

Chris Soucy · June 11th, 2008, 05:26 AM

Have you tried e - mailing him directly?

I haven't, as it was not a priority.

Sounds like it might be for you.

Keep us posted.

Regards,

CS

Oleg Kalyan · June 11th, 2008, 06:17 AM

Chris thank you, unfortunately Tyler did not leave his email address, I hope he sees my post on his thread and update us with some info.

Dave Blackhurst · June 11th, 2008, 02:10 PM

One possible trick that MIGHT realign the tape tracking is to rewind and or fast forward the tape to set it on the reels - there's some tolerance there as well as in the tape mech - IOW, the tape can shift a bit in it's track at least in theory, this combined with minor tracking problems can result in the bits not being in quite the right place at the right time.

I've read of people "whacking" the casette on one side or the other to shift the tape manually if it had "settled" from poor storage, but I've no idea if that is applicable in the least! But it would seem to be related?

I've fiddled with realigning MiniDV mechanisms, they are touchy li'l beasts, and you'd be best to find someone familiar with them as mis/overadjusting can chew up the tape. I've practiced on a "junk" mech and tapes that I recorded on other cams just for test purposes...

I'd adjusted tape tracking on old analog equipment a few times with sucess, so I wasn't afraid of poking the miniDV mech with a sharp stick a few times... but I gather the tolerances are FAR tighter, thus why it's relatively easy for these to go out of alignment.

Chris Soucy · June 11th, 2008, 04:45 PM

I don't know if Canon have a service centre there, but it might be worth giving this lot a bell and asking:

http://www.canon.co.uk/Contact_Us/Ca...ope/Russia.asp

Even if they can't help you directly, they should be able to point you to someone who can.

If that goes nowhere, I suggest you trawl the phone book to see if you can find a service company that does DV cams. I'm sure for the usual bottle or two of Vodka you'd get some traction there.

A half decent cam techie will sort it in pretty short order.

I've just had a very thorough scrute of my HV20 BTW, and it appears (to my sad eye's, anyway) that in order to obtain access to the head adjustment screw, the plastic panel BELOW the tape compartment door needs to be removed (it's the one housing the power socket and bearing the Canon sticker). Simply removeing the tape door outer skin appears to leave the loaded tape and head assembly obscured by this lower moulding. I count 8 screws.

A similarly thorough scrute of my A1 was quite revealing. Similar to the HV20, when the tape is loaded, the tape path/ head assembly is obscured by the plastic moulding/ skin of the camera body itself, which on the A1 doesn't appear removeably without dismantling the entire camera.

HOWEVER, if you look carefully under the handstrap, where the centre of your palm sits when hand holding the camera, you will find two ovoid plastic "flip outs", obviously designed to allow access to specific parts of the tape path/ head assembly.

From this I would deduce that the A1 would be a better/ easier bet to "tweak" to get these tapes to read.

No, I'm not daring you to have a go yourself, just pointing out what appears to be obvious.

I'll stay tuned for the next exciting episode.

CS

June 10th, 2008, 12:49 PM	#1
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	HDV recorded tape does not produce image! I have a problem, please help! : ((( I had shoot with Canon A1 camera in HDV format, using Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ tapes, Two tapes on playback have time code by do not show normal footage, on a slow rewind/fast forward tapes show some footage, lower part of the frame is corrupted. Has anyone had something similar, what should I do, possibly using an HDV deck may help in reading the material. Could re packaging tapes into different containers help, possibly tapes are defected? Any info will be appreciated!

June 10th, 2008, 01:47 PM	#2
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi Oleg................. This problem (or something like it) seems to crop up fairly often. Untill this: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=122958 I had seen no solution. Before you do anything rash with this info, a couple of provisos: 1. We have not heard how this saga played out. Apart from the two tapes apparently saved, there is no indication that it was 100% successful. 2. I strongly recommend you do NOT attempt this yourself, unless you are fully competent in tape deck maintenance. Better to park the camera and tapes in front of a competent technician and let them do it. 3. Ensure that all other possible reasons for your tape problems have been eliminated - dirty heads, damaged tapes etc etc. I can see no way this procedure can fix such problems, in fact it could turn a bad scenario into a disaster. 4. Not having independent verification of the success or otherwise of this procedure, I do not and cannot take any responsibility for it's success or failure in any circumstance. With the above said, if you are experiencing the classic symptoms of this problem: HDV, BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) on play, image on FF/ REW, then this would appear to be the only solution (that I know of). CS PS: No, I still haven't figured out WHY it happens or WHY this works.

June 10th, 2008, 03:29 PM	#5
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Oleg........... Will you let us know the success or otherwise with these tapes and what, exactly, you tried that both failed and worked. I'm still trying to get independent verification of this (or any) procedures validity. Thanks, CS

June 11th, 2008, 05:26 AM	#7
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hi Oleg...... Have you tried e - mailing him directly? I haven't, as it was not a priority. Sounds like it might be for you. Keep us posted. Regards, CS

June 11th, 2008, 04:45 PM	#10
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Hey Oleg............. I don't know if Canon have a service centre there, but it might be worth giving this lot a bell and asking: http://www.canon.co.uk/Contact_Us/Ca...ope/Russia.asp Even if they can't help you directly, they should be able to point you to someone who can. If that goes nowhere, I suggest you trawl the phone book to see if you can find a service company that does DV cams. I'm sure for the usual bottle or two of Vodka you'd get some traction there. A half decent cam techie will sort it in pretty short order. I've just had a very thorough scrute of my HV20 BTW, and it appears (to my sad eye's, anyway) that in order to obtain access to the head adjustment screw, the plastic panel BELOW the tape compartment door needs to be removed (it's the one housing the power socket and bearing the Canon sticker). Simply removeing the tape door outer skin appears to leave the loaded tape and head assembly obscured by this lower moulding. I count 8 screws. A similarly thorough scrute of my A1 was quite revealing. Similar to the HV20, when the tape is loaded, the tape path/ head assembly is obscured by the plastic moulding/ skin of the camera body itself, which on the A1 doesn't appear removeably without dismantling the entire camera. HOWEVER, if you look carefully under the handstrap, where the centre of your palm sits when hand holding the camera, you will find two ovoid plastic "flip outs", obviously designed to allow access to specific parts of the tape path/ head assembly. From this I would deduce that the A1 would be a better/ easier bet to "tweak" to get these tapes to read. No, I'm not daring you to have a go yourself, just pointing out what appears to be obvious. I'll stay tuned for the next exciting episode. CS

June 10th, 2008, 02:24 PM	#3
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Take the tapes out during one of the segments where you can see half the frame, pop the cover (there's a little lever on one side of the tape that you move to open the protective cover over the tape), and take a look at the physical condition of the tape - it should be "smooth" edge to edge - if you can see crinkling/wrinkling on one side or the other or both, it's likely an alignment issue or a bad tape, and unfortunately the footage won't be recoverable (physical damage to tape from bad tracking is pretty harsh). IF the tape looks good, MAYBE it's still a minor tracking issue and you can recover some of it - the fact that you've got half the image corrupted is not encouraging, but sometimes bad alignment/tracking can be corrected for if the tape isn't trashed.

June 10th, 2008, 02:43 PM	#4
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Chris and Dave thank you for the info, I will do my best to use the info to save the tapes, upon examination, the tape looks OK, no visible damage..

June 11th, 2008, 12:26 AM	#6
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Chris, thank you, I am looking for any info from Tyler Elynuik, as what camera was used to align the head to read corrupted tape, I am ready to sacrifice my HV20 : (( I will also try to read tapes from Sony and JVC decks. Thanks on any possible info, Are there any tape recovery centers around the world that specialize on that procedure?

June 11th, 2008, 06:17 AM	#8
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Chris thank you, unfortunately Tyler did not leave his email address, I hope he sees my post on his thread and update us with some info.

June 11th, 2008, 02:10 PM	#9
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	One possible trick that MIGHT realign the tape tracking is to rewind and or fast forward the tape to set it on the reels - there's some tolerance there as well as in the tape mech - IOW, the tape can shift a bit in it's track at least in theory, this combined with minor tracking problems can result in the bits not being in quite the right place at the right time. I've read of people "whacking" the casette on one side or the other to shift the tape manually if it had "settled" from poor storage, but I've no idea if that is applicable in the least! But it would seem to be related? I've fiddled with realigning MiniDV mechanisms, they are touchy li'l beasts, and you'd be best to find someone familiar with them as mis/overadjusting can chew up the tape. I've practiced on a "junk" mech and tapes that I recorded on other cams just for test purposes... I'd adjusted tape tracking on old analog equipment a few times with sucess, so I wasn't afraid of poking the miniDV mech with a sharp stick a few times... but I gather the tolerances are FAR tighter, thus why it's relatively easy for these to go out of alignment.